If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

On Wed, 10 May 2006 18:42:29 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

Tough - they have prevaricated for over 7 years on this. The DfT will
simply tell them what to do and I trust they are sensible enough to
simply get on and do it. My guess is that if they are not then the DfT
will be minded to give TfL ever greater influence / control over
services in or around London and the TOCs *really* will not like that!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 10 May 2006 17:32:59 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters.

Except PAYG Oyster isn't currently valid to intermediate stations
between Liverpool Street and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow
Central and I *know* that Seven Sisters has gates (and validators for
that matter) between the NR platforms and the Seven Sisters Road exit,
and I'm fairly certain that Walthamstow and Tottenham Hale have
validators too, though it's been a while since I visited either of them.

Walthamstow certainly has and there are plenty of bleeps when people get
off a "One" train from Liverpool St.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 May 2006 18:42:29 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations, what is going
to happen at stations, like Wandsworth Town, where the ticket office is
on the island platform, on the trainside of any likely barrier
position?

No one has said everywhere is getting gated. Validation equipment is
required and it will be to the same design as used on some NR stations
north of Queens Park or on the DLR.

You still need a local network to provide the necessary info to and from
the devices and to support whatever retailing infrastructure is going to
be provided.

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

According to a report on BBC London News the TOCs are not happy as they
were not consulted about the TfL/DfT deal.

Tough - they have prevaricated for over 7 years on this. The DfT will
simply tell them what to do and I trust they are sensible enough to
simply get on and do it. My guess is that if they are not then the DfT
will be minded to give TfL ever greater influence / control over
services in or around London and the TOCs *really* will not like that!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

The TOC's don't want this because it is one step away from destroying their
fare structure for single / return tickets. Obviously TfL would like to
impose the same structure as on the Tube.

Until the franchises are renewed (as in the case of SWT) and the use of
Oyster within the zones is mandated, I think that the prevarication may
continue

On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:



It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?


Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message

Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

Yay!

Ian
(in Balham!)

Matthew Dickinson wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:


It happens now with Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham
Hale/Seven Sisters. It depends if they want to go for some quick-wins like
Victoria-Balham, Victoria-Bromley South or Victoria/London Bridge-East
Croydon. I find it hard to believe Ken would resist the PR opportunity to
go-live on the gated stations early. The press release says work will start
on them first. Will the technology be installed and then left idle while
the other stations have gates installed?


Southern will apparently be trialling PAYG soon for Victoria - Balham
journeys.

Any idea whether this will be using the TfL fare structure? (£2.50
daytime / £2.00 evening & weekend)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear
to me.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?
--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I'm just pleased to see some sort of progress at last. I'm curious to
know what strong arm tactics have been employed to get this deal
through.

A film clip on the news last night had Ken claiming that failure to
co-operate with Oyster would result in franchises not being renewed -
although quite what clout he has to back that up is not entirely clear
to me.

The deal involved the DfT so they are presumably willing to exercise
their powers to move things along.

On a slightly different tack, there is one part of this little saga that
has received little attention in the press:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...tcard_shelved/

(TfL abandons plans to add e-payments for parking and goods to Oyster).

I wonder if that was a sweetener to help get the TOCs onside?

Would that have really bothered the TOCs?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Paul Terry wrote:
In message .com,
" writes

If barriers are going to be placed at all N.R. stations,

I don't think there's any proposal for barriers at all NR stations -
just Oyster validators.


I wonder if there is any way of making it more obvious to casual
travellers that when they arrive at a station by train they need to
search for a validator on the platform?

I arrived at New Cross Gate for the first time the other day, using the
East London Line, and having touched in with my pre-pay Oyster at a
tube station. There were crowds of people on the platform so I couldn't
have seen the platform validators even if I had thought of looking for
them. Though even if I had noticed them I would probably have thought
that they were intended only for people changing between Tube and NR at
that station.

As it was I assumed that since New Cross Gate was a big station there
would be exit gates and so I followed the crowds up the stairs and
along the passageway to the main concourse. I then discovered that
there were no gates or validators there. Rather than walk all the way
back to the platforms I decided to leave the station leaving an
unresolved journey on my Oyster.

Now I know that unresolved journeys are straightforward to fix at the
moment, but shouldn't LU/TfL do something to make it easier to know
when you need to look for and use a platform validator?

PaulO