Tristán White wrote:
Hi - sure all of you saw on London Tonight after ITV news last night the
bit about hopefully all train stations will accept PAYG within two years,
rail operators are positive about it because the customers want it, etc.

Good news, it does sound as though Ken is getting everyone talking and at
least agreeing in principle that it has to be done - exactly how easy/hard
that'll be is still up in the air.

You may have seen that footage of Ken and a couple of others trying to get
through the barriers at a station (Liverpool St) and failing, and having to
go through the gates.

Was this a publicity coup to show how hard it was, or was this a genuine
attempt to use PAYG and finding out they couldn't?

Because of the news item it was included with, it looked like a publicity
coup to demonstrate the system's failings. But they looked so genuinely
surprised they couldn't get through - almost as though they weren't
"acting". Anyone know?

They should have been able to get through to travel to Seven Sisters /
Tottenham Hale / Walthamstow Central - PAYG is valid for journeys
between Liverpool St and those stations.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Much as I vowed never ever to vote Labour again since this phoney war
started, if Ken pulls this off with PAYG and irons out all the problems on
NR etc., I may well go back on my word and vote for Ken as mayor again.

I voted Lib Dems at the last mayorals (and Respect at the last local and
general election). But if Ken sorts this PAYG Oyster mess out, he may win
back my vote again.

Tristán White wrote

Much as I vowed never ever to vote Labour again since this phoney war

started, if Ken pulls this off with PAYG and irons out all the
problems on
NR etc., I may well go back on my word and vote for Ken as mayor
again.

Define 'pulls this off'.

Are you happy for NR cheap day returns to disappear for journeys within
the zones ?

Once upon a time I had an Annual season from deepest Surrey to Bank
(W&C). Ken's takeover and simplification would have meant a one third
increase if I hadn't moved to a job elsewhere.

--
Mike D (lives in Surrey, no vote).

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in news:01c67550$0b2d7600
$LocalHost@default:


Tristán White wrote

Much as I vowed never ever to vote Labour again since this phoney war

started, if Ken pulls this off with PAYG and irons out all the
problems on
NR etc., I may well go back on my word and vote for Ken as mayor
again.

Define 'pulls this off'.

Are you happy for NR cheap day returns to disappear for journeys
within
the zones ?

Once upon a time I had an Annual season from deepest Surrey to Bank
(W&C). Ken's takeover and simplification would have meant a one third
increase if I hadn't moved to a job elsewhere.




I don't see why you couldn't have them both?

And if you have a gold card, you get a third off anyway for these
journeys even if you go way out of London. And so does your partner etc.

Would introduction of PAYG necessarily mean abolition of cheap day
returns? After all, you can surely get a cheap-day return on some parts
of NR that do accept PAYG, can't you?

Tristán White wrote
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote

Tristán White wrote
[...]
started, if Ken pulls this off with PAYG and irons out all the
problems on
NR etc., I may well go back on my word and vote for Ken as mayor
again.

Define 'pulls this off'.

Are you happy for NR cheap day returns to disappear for journeys
within the zones ?

Once upon a time I had an Annual season from deepest Surrey to Bank
(W&C). Ken's takeover and simplification would have meant a one
third
increase if I hadn't moved to a job elsewhere.

I don't see why you couldn't have them both?

Once the W&C was taken over the only allowed option was a Annual
season/ zones 1-6 plus NR from the zone boundary to my home station.

And if you have a gold card, you get a third off anyway for these
journeys even if you go way out of London. And so does your partner
etc.

? only after 10:00 (CDR from 9:30).


Would introduction of PAYG necessarily mean abolition of cheap day
returns? After all, you can surely get a cheap-day return on some
parts
of NR that do accept PAYG, can't you?

No CDRs on Oyster of course plus all of them seem to be TFL fares IIRC.

But my question was if Ken 'pulls this off' by having 'singles only'
and making the former CDR buyers pay more until they got to the capping
level would you (and they) be happy) ? I assume that gold card
discounts would vanish too.

--
Mike D

OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central
and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central
and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

You can't use Oyster PAYG from Stratford to Silvertown, only to Canning Town
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...06.pdf#page=12

[But you can instead go to London City Airport on the DLR.]
--
David Biddulph

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Tristán White wrote
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote
Tristán White wrote
(snip)
Would introduction of PAYG necessarily mean abolition of cheap day
returns? After all, you can surely get a cheap-day return on some
parts
of NR that do accept PAYG, can't you?

No CDRs on Oyster of course plus all of them seem to be TFL fares IIRC.

But my question was if Ken 'pulls this off' by having 'singles only'
and making the former CDR buyers pay more until they got to the capping
level would you (and they) be happy) ? I assume that gold card
discounts would vanish too.

My understanding of Tristán's comment was that acceptance of Oyster PAYG
on a route does not mean that paper tickets have to switch over to the
TfL system. Both could be available, so that any traveller would have
the option of using either PAYG or a paper ticket (such as a CDR) for
their journey.

This is almost what happens on Silverlink Metro already; LU (paper)
singles are valid, as are NR cheap day singles/returns. You can choose
which to use depending on which is the cheapest for your requirements.

In this manner, introducing PAYG on, for example, Crystal Palace to
Victoria would mean that passengers simply travelling to the vicinity of
Victoria could buy the cheaper CDR, whilst those travelling on via Tube
to somewhere like Oxford Circus could use PAYG and avoid using two tickets.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

In this manner, introducing PAYG on, for example, Crystal Palace to
Victoria would mean that passengers simply travelling to the vicinity of
Victoria could buy the cheaper CDR, whilst those travelling on via Tube to
somewhere like Oxford Circus could use PAYG and avoid using two tickets.

At the "State of London" debate today I went to the session on transport
with Peter Hendy (TfL Commissioner). One of the audience raised the example
of travelling from Clapham to Waterloo - from Clapham Junction a CDR with a
Young Person's Railcard is about £1.60 wheras on Oyster PAYG Clapham Common
to Waterloo and back is £4.00.

Hendy said he was surprised that there are any places where National Rail
fares are cheaper but declined to give explicit assurances that fares will
not be pushed up if/when PAYG is rolled out on National Rail.

Dave Arquati wrote:

This is almost what happens on Silverlink Metro already; LU (paper)
singles are valid, as are NR cheap day singles/returns. You can choose
which to use depending on which is the cheapest for your requirements.



Does this work? If in general customers making the same journeys are
now paying less. Will the companies not raise their prices to recover
the loss?

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.