Tristán White wrote
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote

Tristán White wrote
[...]
started, if Ken pulls this off with PAYG and irons out all the
problems on
NR etc., I may well go back on my word and vote for Ken as mayor
again.

Define 'pulls this off'.

Are you happy for NR cheap day returns to disappear for journeys
within the zones ?

Once upon a time I had an Annual season from deepest Surrey to Bank
(W&C). Ken's takeover and simplification would have meant a one
third
increase if I hadn't moved to a job elsewhere.

I don't see why you couldn't have them both?

Once the W&C was taken over the only allowed option was a Annual
season/ zones 1-6 plus NR from the zone boundary to my home station.

And if you have a gold card, you get a third off anyway for these
journeys even if you go way out of London. And so does your partner
etc.

? only after 10:00 (CDR from 9:30).


Would introduction of PAYG necessarily mean abolition of cheap day
returns? After all, you can surely get a cheap-day return on some
parts
of NR that do accept PAYG, can't you?

No CDRs on Oyster of course plus all of them seem to be TFL fares IIRC.

But my question was if Ken 'pulls this off' by having 'singles only'
and making the former CDR buyers pay more until they got to the capping
level would you (and they) be happy) ? I assume that gold card
discounts would vanish too.

--
Mike D

OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central
and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central
and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

You can't use Oyster PAYG from Stratford to Silvertown, only to Canning Town
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...06.pdf#page=12

[But you can instead go to London City Airport on the DLR.]
--
David Biddulph

"David Biddulph" wrote in
:

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney
Central and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

You can't use Oyster PAYG from Stratford to Silvertown, only to
Canning Town
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...l-fares-2006.p
df#page=12

[But you can instead go to London City Airport on the DLR.]



OK. If I can get a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central and back, can I
not get a CDR from Stratford to Canning Town and back because PAYG can be
used on the latter?

On Sat, 13 May 2006 15:28:44 -0500, "Tristán White"
wrote:

"David Biddulph" wrote in
:

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
OK. question. I can get (I think) a CDR from Stratford to Hackney
Central and back, correct?

But can I not get a CDR from Stratford to Silvertown and back?

On the same line?

Because I can use Oyster PAYG on the latter, but not on the former.

You can't use Oyster PAYG from Stratford to Silvertown, only to
Canning Town
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...l-fares-2006.p
df#page=12

[But you can instead go to London City Airport on the DLR.]



OK. If I can get a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central and back, can I
not get a CDR from Stratford to Canning Town and back because PAYG can be
used on the latter?

The simplest way to solve this is to ask the National Rail website. You
can get a CDR for the latter journey - £2.10 but only on Silverlink.

Standard day return is £3.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

OK. If I can get a CDR from Stratford to Hackney Central and back, can
I not get a CDR from Stratford to Canning Town and back because PAYG
can be used on the latter?

The simplest way to solve this is to ask the National Rail website.
You can get a CDR for the latter journey - £2.10 but only on
Silverlink.

Standard day return is £3.



So this proves that a CDR and PAYG *can* coexist. :-)

£2.10 CDR on Silverlink, Stratford to Canning Town and back.
or PAYG.

If both "fares" can coexist on the same line, then I don't see why the
eventual introduction of PAYG on all London NR stations would necessarily
mean that CDR would *HAVE* to disappear on these lines.

Michael R N Dolbear wrote:
Tristán White wrote
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote
Tristán White wrote
(snip)
Would introduction of PAYG necessarily mean abolition of cheap day
returns? After all, you can surely get a cheap-day return on some
parts
of NR that do accept PAYG, can't you?

No CDRs on Oyster of course plus all of them seem to be TFL fares IIRC.

But my question was if Ken 'pulls this off' by having 'singles only'
and making the former CDR buyers pay more until they got to the capping
level would you (and they) be happy) ? I assume that gold card
discounts would vanish too.

My understanding of Tristán's comment was that acceptance of Oyster PAYG
on a route does not mean that paper tickets have to switch over to the
TfL system. Both could be available, so that any traveller would have
the option of using either PAYG or a paper ticket (such as a CDR) for
their journey.

This is almost what happens on Silverlink Metro already; LU (paper)
singles are valid, as are NR cheap day singles/returns. You can choose
which to use depending on which is the cheapest for your requirements.

In this manner, introducing PAYG on, for example, Crystal Palace to
Victoria would mean that passengers simply travelling to the vicinity of
Victoria could buy the cheaper CDR, whilst those travelling on via Tube
to somewhere like Oxford Circus could use PAYG and avoid using two tickets.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

In this manner, introducing PAYG on, for example, Crystal Palace to
Victoria would mean that passengers simply travelling to the vicinity of
Victoria could buy the cheaper CDR, whilst those travelling on via Tube to
somewhere like Oxford Circus could use PAYG and avoid using two tickets.

At the "State of London" debate today I went to the session on transport
with Peter Hendy (TfL Commissioner). One of the audience raised the example
of travelling from Clapham to Waterloo - from Clapham Junction a CDR with a
Young Person's Railcard is about £1.60 wheras on Oyster PAYG Clapham Common
to Waterloo and back is £4.00.

Hendy said he was surprised that there are any places where National Rail
fares are cheaper but declined to give explicit assurances that fares will
not be pushed up if/when PAYG is rolled out on National Rail.

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

At the "State of London" debate today I went to the session on transport
with Peter Hendy (TfL Commissioner). One of the audience raised the example
of travelling from Clapham to Waterloo - from Clapham Junction a CDR with a
Young Person's Railcard is about £1.60 wheras on Oyster PAYG Clapham Common
to Waterloo and back is £4.00.

Hendy said he was surprised that there are any places where National Rail
fares are cheaper but declined to give explicit assurances that fares will
not be pushed up if/when PAYG is rolled out on National Rail.

And what about Ealing Broadway to Paddington? That's about £2.70 CDR.

Colin McKenzie

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:28:56 +0100, Colin McKenzie wrote:

At the "State of London" debate today I went to the session on transport
with Peter Hendy (TfL Commissioner). One of the audience raised the example
of travelling from Clapham to Waterloo - from Clapham Junction a CDR with a
Young Person's Railcard is about £1.60 wheras on Oyster PAYG Clapham Common
to Waterloo and back is £4.00.

Hendy said he was surprised that there are any places where National Rail
fares are cheaper but declined to give explicit assurances that fares will
not be pushed up if/when PAYG is rolled out on National Rail.

And what about Ealing Broadway to Paddington? That's about £2.70 CDR.

If Mr Hendy is "surprised" then he must really have no idea. There
must be many many such examples - it's easy enough to find them even
if you only look at routes where PAYG is already valid and even if you
disregard Railcard discounts.

e.g.
Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston: CDR £5.30; PAYG £5.80
Harrow & Wealdstone to Queens Park: CDR £3.40; PAYG £3.60
Harrow & Wealdstone to Stonebridge Park: CDR £3.00; PAYG £3.60
Willesden Junction to Euston: CDR £4.00; PAYG £4.90
Wembley Central to Queens Park: CDR £2.50; PAYG £3.60
West Ruislip to Marylebone: CDR £4.50; PAYG £5.80
South Ruislip to Marylebone: CDR £4.50; PAYG £4.90
Kentish Town to Kings Cross Thameslink: CDR £3.20; PAYG £4.00
Kentish Town to London Bridge: CDR £3.20; PAYG £4.00
Seven Sisters to Liverpool Street: CDR £3.60; PAYG £4.90
Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street: CDR £3.60; PAYG £4.90
Walthamstow Central to Liverpool Street: CDR £4.00; PAYG £4.90
Stratford to Liverpool Street: CDR £3.60; PAYG £4.90
West Ham to Fenchurch Street: CDR £3.10; PAYG £4.90
Limehouse to Fenchurch Street: CDR £3.00; PAYG £4.00
Upminster to Barking: CDR £2.50; PAYG £3.60
Barking to Limehouse: CDR £3.00; PAYG £3.60

In some of these cases, the CDR remains cheaper even if one or both of
the outward/return journeys are during evenings/weekends when the PAYG
fares are discounted.