For people to be able to compare your "achievement" with that
of others, unless you are the first to do something [1], then you
really need to attempt a recognised task [2], and abide by a
recognised rule set, which the Guinness one is.

"Unless you are the first". *Is* anyone else known to have done that
before? Obviously Lynch wasn't aware of it.

The record holder (on 5th May 2005) was Geoff Marshall , See
www.geofftech.co.uk ...

Pay attention: Geoff Marshall and Neil Blake are the record holders
for a *different* task.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "The walls have hearsay."
-- Fonseca & Carolino

"Mark Brader" wrote:
"Peter" writes [rearranged for convenience in responding]:
Well I think this particular challenge was pretty pointless (but hey,
it's
not like the standard Tube Challenge could be construed as anything
but!),

Exactly! As pointless challenges go, I think it's as praiseworthy as any.

mainly because it didn't really set out all it set out to achieve.
... a lot of the lines have only been covered in one direction ...

That *was* what the person set out to achieve. All *routes*, not all
tracks.

Ok, maybe so, but it's still moving the goalposts though. W.R. Lynch's
basic theory was that they'd use the 2 1/4 hours "spare" to traverse every
section of network. But we're not compring like with like here. If they'd
used a bike on the regular Tube Challenge it would have *easily* been
possible to knock a fair bit of time off the current world record - probably
a good hour or so at least. This is why previous reecord holders have done
it in apparently much better times (see www.tubechallenge.com for more
info). So really there should be nearer 3 hours, possibly as much as 4
hours "spare" to cover unvisited sections of track.

Still, it's just got me examining my best (so far) "all stations" route
(theoretical though, haven't yet tested it) and working out what sections of
line I haven't done. Should be quite easy to do most of them just by means
of slight alterations and the occasional double-back, without affecting the
route in too big a way. Mind you - in connection with that - here's a
question - do the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines share tracks between Baker
Street and Finchley Road?

Assuming there was a mistake in the write-up of the route and the
person did cover the District Line between Acton Town and Turnham Green,

No mistake; under the terms Lynch decided on, the District/Piccadilly
section from Ealing Common to Barons Court is one route and only had to
be done once. Lynch took the Piccadilly from Heathrow to Turnham Green.

I'm still not convinced. I don't think the Piccadilly Line passes through
Chiswick Park station (judging by the tube map) - but then again, having
just looked at the track markings on the London A-Z, it appears I've proved
myself wrong. Still I've typed it now, so it stays :-)

--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

In message , at 17:09:37 on Sat, 3
Jun 2006, Mark Brader remarked:
unless you are the first to do something [1], then you really need to
attempt a recognised task [2], and abide by a recognised rule set, which
the Guinness one is.

"Unless you are the first". *Is* anyone else known to have done that
before? Obviously Lynch wasn't aware of it.

If you allow that train of thought, I could do the same; and be the
first wearing yellow underpants. Or the first to allow myself the luxury
of taxis between stations, or the first to do it wearing yellow
underpants, using taxis, and eating a cheese sandwich at exactly twelve
noon.

But are those the "firsts" that people are really interested in?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:25:39 on
Sun, 4 Jun 2006, AstraVanMan
remarked:

W.R. Lynch's
basic theory was that they'd use the 2 1/4 hours "spare" to traverse every
section of network. But we're not compring like with like here. If they'd
used a bike on the regular Tube Challenge it would have *easily* been
possible to knock a fair bit of time off the current world record - probably
a good hour or so at least. This is why previous reecord holders have done
it in apparently much better times (see www.tubechallenge.com for more
info). So really there should be nearer 3 hours, possibly as much as 4
hours "spare" to cover unvisited sections of track.

This simply demonstrates the issues of making up a new rule set, when
there's a well (and independently) established rule set already.

Still, it's just got me examining my best (so far) "all stations" route
(theoretical though, haven't yet tested it) and working out what sections of
line I haven't done. Should be quite easy to do most of them just by means
of slight alterations and the occasional double-back, without affecting the
route in too big a way. Mind you - in connection with that - here's a
question - do the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines share tracks between Baker
Street and Finchley Road?

No, the Jubilee is in a tube tunnel, and the Metropolitan is in
traditional surface/cut-and-cover.

Another route that's "even more not the same" is Paddington to Baker St,
where the Bakerloo takes a different path to the Metropolitan/Circle.
(Bakerloo Edgware Rd and Marylebone are a bit like Mornington Crescent,
would anyone argue that the latter wasn't on a separate route?).

Barons Court to South Ken on the Piccadilly is like the Baker
St/Finchley Rd section; whether it's one route or two will depend on the
small print in the definition.

--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message basic theory was that
they'd use the 2 1/4 hours "spare" to traverse every
section of network. But we're not compring like with like here. If
they'd
used a bike on the regular Tube Challenge it would have *easily* been
possible to knock a fair bit of time off the current world record -
probably
a good hour or so at least. This is why previous reecord holders have
done
it in apparently much better times (see www.tubechallenge.com for more
info). So really there should be nearer 3 hours, possibly as much as 4
hours "spare" to cover unvisited sections of track.

This simply demonstrates the issues of making up a new rule set, when
there's a well (and independently) established rule set already.

True.

Still, it's just got me examining my best (so far) "all stations" route
(theoretical though, haven't yet tested it) and working out what sections
of
line I haven't done. Should be quite easy to do most of them just by
means
of slight alterations and the occasional double-back, without affecting
the
route in too big a way. Mind you - in connection with that - here's a
question - do the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines share tracks between
Baker
Street and Finchley Road?

No, the Jubilee is in a tube tunnel, and the Metropolitan is in
traditional surface/cut-and-cover.

Right, ok. So it's at Finchley Road, where they both go overground, that
they both start sharing, right?

Another route that's "even more not the same" is Paddington to Baker St,
where the Bakerloo takes a different path to the Metropolitan/Circle.
(Bakerloo Edgware Rd and Marylebone are a bit like Mornington Crescent,
would anyone argue that the latter wasn't on a separate route?).

Barons Court to South Ken on the Piccadilly is like the Baker St/Finchley
Rd section; whether it's one route or two will depend on the small print
in the definition.

I'd have said two, as it is basically two physically separate sections of
track.

--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

"Roland Perry" wrote in message "Unless you are the
first". *Is* anyone else known to have done that
before? Obviously Lynch wasn't aware of it.

If you allow that train of thought, I could do the same; and be the first
wearing yellow underpants. Or the first to allow myself the luxury of
taxis between stations, or the first to do it wearing yellow underpants,
using taxis, and eating a cheese sandwich at exactly twelve noon.

But are those the "firsts" that people are really interested in?

Indeed. The whole point of the GWR (Guinness World Records) rules is that
they're accessible to pretty much everyone. Not everyone may have a fold-up
push-bike to take with them, or be able to afford the luxury of taxis to
link stations or have a friend meet them at appropriate points during the
day, but most people have the ability to do links on foot, and use
buses/overground links/trams.

I say "nearly everyone" - obviously wheelchair-bound people would be very
restricted. But there may well be enough wheelchair-bound tube enthusiasts
for them to set (and compete for) their own separate record. Obviously a
lot more restrictions apply, but I wonder if it could be done.

--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

Back in the 60's when I had a go round the Tube Network, there were two
records. One was for the use of public transport only and the other
was for using *any* means to connect between lines. This would involve
using fast cars and friends to pick you up at strategic places. The
fast cars record was, of course, that much quicker.

Visiting stations I think is quite clear - the train has to stop and
"visit" the station. Therefore the use of fast trains from Acton Town
to Hammersmith and from Finchley Road to Moor Park are definately not
allowed.

For the record, my attempt did not set out to break any records, but
merely achieve the trip. I never intended to visit Aldwych, Shoreditch
or Olympia, as it was on a Saturday and at that time there was no
regular service to either of the stations. I had to abandon North
Weald to Ongar, as my train from Hainault ran two minutes late and
missed a connecting train at Woodford that connected with the 40 minute
Ongar service at Epping. I also *had* to get to Upminster before 23:15
in order to catch the last train back to my home in Edgware, which is
where I started, so could not afford the time to wait for the next
Ongar train.

What the journey did tell me was that Edgware was not the best place to
start and for many years, I think, Ongar was considered to be the best.
I don't think I have ever seen a route which does not have Upminster
as the final destination.

So, in 18 hours dead - 05:15 to 23:15, I managed 267 stations,
including Watford Junction on the Bakerloo and not forgetting that then
there was no Victoria Line or Jubillee Line extension to add in to the
route! I estimated the journey times using the Underground Guide
publication. I gained a bit and lost a bit, but after 15 hours I was
on the *exact* train at Hainault at 20:15, that I had planned to be on.
I say that, as that is where it all went a bit wrong with the Ongar
problem.

Still, to this day I have never tried to do it agian and I never will.
The route is key and I don't go much on records that are set by just a
few seconds better than the previous attempt. Get the route right and
you can carve off more than a few seconds. Of course, delays, signal
failures and one unders will screw up your attempt. So pick a day
when these sorts of problems don't happen!! (As if....!!).

Ian

"Ian Rivett" wrote in message
Visiting stations I think is quite clear - the train has to stop and
"visit" the station. Therefore the use of fast trains from Acton Town
to Hammersmith and from Finchley Road to Moor Park are definately not
allowed.

Indeed. Though under this "new" idea, they would count, as it just involved
covering sections of track.

For the record, my attempt did not set out to break any records, but
merely achieve the trip. I never intended to visit Aldwych, Shoreditch
or Olympia, as it was on a Saturday and at that time there was no
regular service to either of the stations. I had to abandon North
Weald to Ongar, as my train from Hainault ran two minutes late and
missed a connecting train at Woodford that connected with the 40 minute
Ongar service at Epping.

Ongar - yes, I've heard there was once a station there :-)

I also *had* to get to Upminster before 23:15
in order to catch the last train back to my home in Edgware, which is
where I started, so could not afford the time to wait for the next
Ongar train.

Obviously not hardcore enough, then! Die-hard tube challengers tend to stay
in a B+B (or with a nearby friend) in Amersham the night before (Nita
Hurley's is the tube challenger's B+B of choice, it seems), and then either
arrange a lift or stay in Upminster the following night.

What the journey did tell me was that Edgware was not the best place to
start and for many years, I think, Ongar was considered to be the best.
I don't think I have ever seen a route which does not have Upminster
as the final destination.

Well, the current world record started at Amersham and finished at Upminster
(although that's recently been beaten, albeit by 5 seconds, though GWR
haven't yet made this one official), but a recent attempt would have done it
in about 18h 10m, finishing at Heathrow, if it wasn't for a power cut at
Earls Court, meaning that they couldn't make the connection to Olympia, and
change onto the District Line to cover West Kensington as well. Hunt around
the forums on tubechallenge.com for more info.

Still, to this day I have never tried to do it agian and I never will.
The route is key and I don't go much on records that are set by just a
few seconds better than the previous attempt. Get the route right and
you can carve off more than a few seconds.

Indeed. Sam and Steve (who recently beat the world record by just 5
seconds) know that they were lucky, but luck plays a big part in whether or
not a route works on that particular day at all, like you say. It can be
absolutely spot on in theory, but a whole host of things can completely mess
things up.

Of course, delays, signal
failures and one unders will screw up your attempt. So pick a day
when these sorts of problems don't happen!! (As if....!!).

Indeed.

--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

"AstraVanMan" wrote in
message ...
"Roland Perry" wrote in message basic theory
was that they'd use the 2 1/4 hours "spare" to traverse every
section of network. But we're not compring like with like here.
If they'd
used a bike on the regular Tube Challenge it would have *easily*
been
possible to knock a fair bit of time off the current world record -
probably
a good hour or so at least. This is why previous reecord holders
have done
it in apparently much better times (see www.tubechallenge.com for
more
info). So really there should be nearer 3 hours, possibly as much
as 4
hours "spare" to cover unvisited sections of track.

This simply demonstrates the issues of making up a new rule set,
when there's a well (and independently) established rule set
already.

True.

Still, it's just got me examining my best (so far) "all stations"
route
(theoretical though, haven't yet tested it) and working out what
sections of
line I haven't done. Should be quite easy to do most of them just
by means
of slight alterations and the occasional double-back, without
affecting the
route in too big a way. Mind you - in connection with that -
here's a
question - do the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines share tracks
between Baker
Street and Finchley Road?

No, the Jubilee is in a tube tunnel, and the Metropolitan is in
traditional surface/cut-and-cover.

Right, ok. So it's at Finchley Road, where they both go overground,
that they both start sharing, right?


I didn't think the two lines shared at all (strictly speaking).
They've got their own tracks and platforms at the shared stations (eg
Wembley Park, Finchley Road). So, although the two run parallel for a
while, I wouldn't say that they shared, as such.

AstraVanMan wrote:
# What did nag away at my thoughts, though, was the observation
# that the record was achieved in 2h 16m 17s less than the traffic
# day of 20h 52min. Could the skipped network sections be fitted
# within that 2¼h to make an all-lines bash?

Traffic Day? I'm guessing by that they mean the time from the first
operational train departing its starting that day, to the last one
arriving?

Yes.


W. Acton, N. Acton, Ealing Bdwy., Acton Town, Heathrow T.1,2,3,
Turnham Green, Richmond, Upminster.

Unless they changed to the district at Acton Town they'd have
missed out Chiswick Park, surely?

The aim was to cover all *routes*, and the rules declared that the
shared tracks between Barons Court and Ealing Common counted as a single
route. At Chiswick Park, the "fast" (Piccadilly) pair of tracks are
between the "local" (District) tracks.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)