In article 5, Tristán
White writes
Having an underground station nearby means that it's easy to get in and
out without having to make your way through backstreets to the new
alternative station on Shoreditch High Street. Which is not ready yet as
an alternative (if it goes to schedule, we're looking at June 2010 -
four years to go!)

It's not practical to build the connection to the new route and keep the
old one open.

Do we really want to lose even more history?

Do we want "history" to block all progress? You have to compromise.

Could they not have gone up
to Hoxton from the current station?

No. Where are you going to put the incline to get over the GER main line
(which, remember, is only 50m or so beyond Shoreditch station).

I remember seeing PDFs and consultations and stuff on UTL when they were
discussing the exact route north of Whitechapel, but I can't remember
reading a completely convincing argument why they couldn't use the
existing route that used to go to Liverpool Street pre-war (and which
was a goods-only service until the 60s).

Because it goes to Liverpool Street.

But the basic issue isn't the route in plan, it's the elevations. You
need to get *up* from below street level at Whitechapel to well above it
at Hoxton. The only practical place for such an incline (look at a map)
is east of Shoreditch and on to the old Bishopsgate viaduct.

If they could have provided an interchange from the ELL-Extension at
Bishopsgate/SHS to the Central Line, I would agree that there is sense
in moving the station to Bishopsgate. But since there's not (another
missed opportunity),

I doubt the amount of interchange traffic (on to an already crowded
Central Line, remember) would justify it.

But no. So was it really necessary to get rid of another piece of
functional history?

Yes.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
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Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Tristán White wrote:

Do we really want to lose even more history?

You appear to be confusing history with theme parks.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683651.html
(51908 (Class 108) at Helsby, 5 Jun 1985)

Chris Read:
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will
close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34

Tristán White:
Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who
designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on
Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June.

I suggest that this is not an error as such, but the standard problem
of whether to report a closure date as "last day of service" or "first
day of no service". What's the actual wording on the map?
--
Mark Brader "All this government stuff, in other words,
Toronto is not reading matter, but prefabricated
parts of quarrels." -- Rudolf Flesch

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
Chris Read:
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will
close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34

Tristán White:
Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who
designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on
Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June.

I suggest that this is not an error as such, but the standard problem
of whether to report a closure date as "last day of service" or "first
day of no service". What's the actual wording on the map?

The Tube/TfL website states that "Shoreditch station will close permanently
after the end of service on Friday 9 June".
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...me/planned.asp

Online Tube map says "Station closes permanently in June 2006". I assume
this is a smaller version of the wall map seen at stations.

The TfL Tube closures email I had yesterday states "Shoreditch station to
permanently close from Saturday 10 June 2006. For further details click
here."
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/unlinked/tube-...10-June-06.pdf
That statement is repeated on the map in the link. This is part of a leaflet
which starts with "From Saturday 10 June Shoreditch station permanently
closed".

Nick

Last train ex-Shoreditch is 20:33. I believe the following "staff"
train will carry invited big-wigs so the "genuine" passenger will be
unable to travel on the actual "last" departure. Or does the last
"public" working count as the official "last" anyway?

wrote:

Last train ex-Shoreditch is 20:33. I believe the following "staff"
train will carry invited big-wigs so the "genuine" passenger will be
unable to travel on the actual "last" departure. Or does the last
"public" working count as the official "last" anyway?

Well, most books that list this sort of thing tend to list two closures
- to passengers and to freight. Thinking this through, one might be
tempted to conclude that "bigwigs" are to be classified as freight.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14486537.html
(60 050 at Winwick, 21 Apr 2005)

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
Chris Read:
Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will
close permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34

Tristán White:
Thanks for the reminder. And a rap on the knuckles of the people who
designed the latest map.... it says that the station would close on
Saturday 10 June whereas technically it's late on Friday 9 June.

I suggest that this is not an error as such, but the standard problem
of whether to report a closure date as "last day of service" or "first
day of no service". What's the actual wording on the map?

Looking at the map tonight in Epping station shows that Shoreditch has a red
line through the name and a 'footnote sword' beside it, the branch from
Whitechapel is in the faded shade as normally used on lines being built and
there is a bus symbol to show how you can get there instead. I assume
details of that can be found on the base of the map by looking for the
footnote.

Nick

"Chris Read" wrote in message
...

Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will
close
permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34

Out of interest, did they ever consider running the ELL services into
Liverpool Street for all the mainline connections and the direct link to the
City for all the workers?
Or was there too much mainline traffic to allow this?

Nick

Nick Pedley wrote:

Just a quick reminder that Shoreditch station (East London Line) will
close
permanently this Friday. Last train appears to depart at 20:34

Out of interest, did they ever consider running the ELL services into
Liverpool Street for all the mainline connections and the direct link to
the City for all the workers?
Or was there too much mainline traffic to allow this?

Well that's what the line originally did but I guess it proved too messy to
justify given the traffic involved. Putting it back now would take at least
one much needed platform at Liverpool Street and create more pressure on one
of the most congested sections of track in London.

If a Liverpool Street to New Crosses root is needed, restoring through
services on the connection at St. Mary's would do the trick better, if the
District and H&C could handle it.

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
If a Liverpool Street to New Crosses root is needed, restoring through
services on the connection at St. Mary's would do the trick better, if the
District and H&C could handle it.

They can't. There is literally no capacity for additional movements
across the Aldgate triangle, which means that any new services via the
St. Mary's Curve would have to be diverted away from the District main
line, increasing overcrowding. Likewise, Aldgate East would be strained
with all of the new interchanging traffic (St. Mary's station is long
gone and will not come back, no matter what).

A far better option is to rebuild Whitechapel DR to increase and
rationalize track capacity, and to additionally reconstruct the station
to provide more and step-free access between the two routes.