http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

Kev wrote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.
If you need to look at the difference, take a trip to Athens. Some of
the newer stations there are large and airy, airconditioned and with
wide platforms. The trains are larger than London tube trains as well,
and you never feel hot, despite the higher temperatures outside.
Obviously you cannot rebuild the entire LU, but if we are to get hotter
summers some though must be given to the comfort of passengers. The
stations on the Jubille Line extension are a good starting point.People
tend to remember an uncomfortable journey on a hot day for longer than
they do one on a cold day when the heat below ground is more welcoming.

Neill

Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

C! wrote:
Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Marc.

Neillw001 wrote:

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.

Merseyrail is always pleasantly cool in summer, and I believe this is
in part down to groundwater - so the story on the BBC website about
cooling that may be helpful.

Neil

Greetings.

In article .com,
Neillw001 wrote:

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

Only one of the Budapest lines (the oldest) is cut-and-cover. The other
two are (very) deep tunnels. However, you're correct that none of the
three lines get particularly hot in the summer.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller [en,(fr,de,ia)] Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

On 8 Jun 2006 03:58:42 -0700, "Kev" wrote:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

I think that was a quote taken somewhat out of context.

Interestingly (!) I got caught in a 15 delay between St James Park and
Victoria this evening. This was due a passenger ill on a train at Sloane
Square. The driver gave us what advice / information he could and we
knew that a doctor was on the scene at Sloane Square.

In the carriage I was in a young chap said he was hot, then that he
couldn't breath and then was starting to panic somewhat. This then made
his breathing problem (appear) even worse. The passengers nearest him
did what they could to cool him down with water and by fanning him. A
qualified first aider then came along and sat him down and got him to
breath in a controlled manner. He got off at Victoria with the first
aider and some assistance was sought from the platform staff.

I haven't witnessed that sort of situation before (with heat) and I was
a little surprised to see how the panic built up in just one person so
quickly. It also led me to consider what would have happened if the
train had been very full (it wasn't thankfully) and been stuck for much
longer.

I will be giving some feedback on my experience to the Line Manager as I
think some more frequent announcements from the driver and a better view
of timescales (hard I know in such cases) might have calmed matters
down.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

wrote:
Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.
[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:
wrote:
Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.

[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Does "articulated doorways" mean that each carriage will be directly
connected to its neighbours, thus removing the ONLY source of decent
ventilation, i.e. the end-doors' opening windows?! So, the ONLY place
on the train where one can actually stand and feel reasonably
comfortable in hot weather is going to be removed. What's that
"ambience" to which you are referring: tropics under London? Now,
that's REAL progress!

Marc.