asdf wrote:
On 19 Jun 2006 07:53:50 -0700, Neil Williams wrote:

Your fare is not something to be paid only if you cannot avoid it - you
are using a service that costs money to provide and so you should pay
for it. If you don't want to pay your tube fare then get the bus!
Hardly. The OP is travelling with an Oyster card, using it as
instructed. The correct fare is by definition the one that is charged,
so long as he/she has touched in and out as required.

The only way to evade a fare deliberately by Oyster is not to touch
in/out as required.

So what about the following example. I live between Woodford and South
Woodford, and feel like a trip round the Circle Line. So I touch in at
Woodford, travel into London and go once round the Circle, then back
out to South Woodford, where I touch out and walk home. Assuming the
time limit for the journey doesn't get in the way, I pay only the
Woodford to South Woodford fare. Is this fare evasion?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/conditions.asp

I think the relevant passages a
--
10.1. If you are travelling on any of our services without either a
ticket that is valid and available for the journey you are making, or an
Oyster card containing a valid season ticket or when paying as you go, a
record of the start of your trip, or, if you are aged 14 or 15
travelling on a bus without a valid Child Oyster photocard, and we
believe that you are trying to avoid paying the correct fare, you may be
prosecuted. If the court finds you guilty it can fine you up to £1000
(and/or send you to prison for up to three months, if you were
travelling on London Underground).

10.2. If we believe that you have used or tried to use any ticket or
Oyster card to defraud us we may cancel and not re-issue it. If this
happens, we will not give you a refund of the remaining value of the
ticket, or refund any money or deposit paid for the Oyster card.
--

So if you're using PAYG, as long as you are travelling with an Oyster
card holding a record of the start of the journey, then you have a valid
ticket. It's up to the system to charge the "correct" fare.

However, it seems as though if a ticket inspector stops you on an
eastbound Central line train to South Woodford, they might be
suspicious, and suspect you of defrauding TfL - but all they could do
would be to take away your Oyster card.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

However, it seems as though if a ticket inspector stops you on an
eastbound Central line train to South Woodford, they might be suspicious,
and suspect you of defrauding TfL - but all they could do would be to take
away your Oyster card.

How will the trainspotters cope?!

asdf wrote:

So what about the following example. I live between Woodford and South
Woodford, and feel like a trip round the Circle Line. So I touch in at
Woodford, travel into London and go once round the Circle, then back
out to South Woodford, where I touch out and walk home. Assuming the
time limit for the journey doesn't get in the way, I pay only the
Woodford to South Woodford fare. Is this fare evasion?

It's a bit of a contrived example, but as Oyster charging appears to be
based only on entry and exit points I suppose it is strictly OK. Does
LUL have a concept of permitted/reasonable routes? While I realise it
wouldn't affect the fare per-se as the whole thing is in Zone 1, are
you allowed to go the "wrong way" round the Circle Line to travel one
stop, for example?

I've read the OP again and it related to a Travelcard rather than
pre-pay, though, which might change matters, as a TC is for now at
least a traditional zonal ticket.

Neil

On 20 Jun 2006 04:40:14 -0700, Neil Williams wrote:

So what about the following example. I live between Woodford and South
Woodford, and feel like a trip round the Circle Line. So I touch in at
Woodford, travel into London and go once round the Circle, then back
out to South Woodford, where I touch out and walk home. Assuming the
time limit for the journey doesn't get in the way, I pay only the
Woodford to South Woodford fare. Is this fare evasion?

It's a bit of a contrived example, but as Oyster charging appears to be
based only on entry and exit points I suppose it is strictly OK. Does
LUL have a concept of permitted/reasonable routes?

I don't believe so...

I've read the OP again and it related to a Travelcard rather than
pre-pay, though, which might change matters, as a TC is for now at
least a traditional zonal ticket.

Well, if it makes a difference, what if you had a Z4 Travelcard season
on the Oyster?

(I don't think it makes a difference, as you're allowed to travel out
of zone on a Travelcard on Oyster, provided you touch in/out, because
the extension will be charged automagically via PAYG.)

Sorry, forgot to answer one point:

So what about the following example. I live between Woodford and South
Woodford, and feel like a trip round the Circle Line. So I touch in at
Woodford, travel into London and go once round the Circle, then back
out to South Woodford, where I touch out and walk home. Assuming the
time limit for the journey doesn't get in the way, I pay only the
Woodford to South Woodford fare. Is this fare evasion?

It's a bit of a contrived example...

Perhaps, but I was considering a similar, "real" case (though only on
a theoretical basis) on the day of the Shoreditch last run. (Though I
didn't go in the end.)