Richard J. wrote:
wrote:

In her amusing book, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" Lynn Truss (mistakenly,
I think) states the rule as being that one omits the "s" where the
proper noun is of "ancient" origin, whatever that may mean. But she
then goes on to disprove this rule by quoting "St. Thomas' Hospital"
as being an exception to the rule!

IIRC (I don't have the book to hand at present), she said that if people
invent a brand name, one should reluctantly accept it as it stands, and
quoted "St Thomas' Hospital" as an example. The webmaster at their site
once tried to persuade me that the spelling reflected the fact that
there were two saints called Thomas connected with the hospital, but of
course that would make it "St Thomases' Hospital".

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard, you remember correctly about what Miss Truss wrote about St.
Thomas' Hospital. Not quite sure where her "brand name" - the hospital
has been around for a good while longer than either that concept!

Highly amusing what you wrote about the two saints! I hail from two
institutions where that rule does apply, but people inevitably get in
wrong - Kings' House (in my old school - after Kings Charles I and II)
and Queens' College, Cambridge (after Queens Elizabeth Woodville and
Margaret of Anjou).

Marc.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, wrote:

Richard J. wrote:
wrote:

In her amusing book, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" Lynn Truss (mistakenly,
I think) states the rule as being that one omits the "s" where the
proper noun is of "ancient" origin, whatever that may mean. But she
then goes on to disprove this rule by quoting "St. Thomas' Hospital"
as being an exception to the rule!

IIRC (I don't have the book to hand at present), she said that if people
invent a brand name, one should reluctantly accept it as it stands, and
quoted "St Thomas' Hospital" as an example. The webmaster at their site
once tried to persuade me that the spelling reflected the fact that
there were two saints called Thomas connected with the hospital, but of
course that would make it "St Thomases' Hospital".

Ss Thomases', isn't it? Or would you have to say Ss Thomas and Thomas? Now
they're starting to sound like a Welsh greengrocer ...

Highly amusing what you wrote about the two saints! I hail from two
institutions where that rule does apply, but people inevitably get in
wrong - Kings' House (in my old school - after Kings Charles I and II)
and Queens' College, Cambridge

But, just to keep you on your toes, Queen's College, Oxford!

tom

--
Yesterday's research projects are today's utilities and tomorrow's
historical footnotes. -- Roy Smith

wrote:
Tristán White wrote:

If it's Greek, it's always S'

If it's not, it's up to the individual as long as he or she is
consistent throughout.

Therefore, always Achilles' heel, Eros' statue, Nikolaidis' penalty
shot, Stavros' kebab house, Bacchus' wine, Androcles' lion, but if it's
not Greek, you can say James's Square or James' Square as long as it's
consistent throughout.

Whilst agreeing with almost everyting you have written, your final
paragraph is somewhat contentious. It would imply that Jesus was Greek!

I am always consistent in omitting the final "s", and as a rule that
cannot be faulted.

Marc.

We take out English name Jesus (I assume you refer to Jesus of
Nazareth) from his name in the Koine Grecian dialect. The Hebrew
(Y'shua) translates into Joshua.

Adrian.

Tristán White wrote:
The roundels are wrong.

His name is John, not Johns.

Therefore, the apostrophe HAS to go between the n and the s. Any other
signage is the product of illiterate designers.

JOHN'S

MARTIN'S




In the case of plural nouns, the apostrophe always goes afterwards. So

SPANIARDS' INN
if it refers to more than one Spaniard, or else

SPANIARD'S INN


Where there is some discussion is if the given name already ends with S.

Eg JAMES'S PALACE
or JAMES' PALACE

But never JAMES PALACE



The official line is, certainly as far as the University of London is
concerned where I did my studies and I am a sessional lecturer:

If it's Greek, it's always S'

If it's not, it's up to the individual as long as he or she is
consistent throughout.

Therefore, always Achilles' heel, Eros' statue, Nikolaidis' penalty
shot, Stavros' kebab house, Bacchus' wine, Androcles' lion, but if it's
not Greek, you can say James's Square or James' Square as long as it's
consistent throughout.

Tristán White wrote:
The roundels are wrong.

His name is John, not Johns.

Therefore, the apostrophe HAS to go between the n and the s. Any other
signage is the product of illiterate designers.

JOHN'S

MARTIN'S




In the case of plural nouns, the apostrophe always goes afterwards. So

SPANIARDS' INN
if it refers to more than one Spaniard, or else

SPANIARD'S INN


Where there is some discussion is if the given name already ends with S.

Eg JAMES'S PALACE
or JAMES' PALACE

But never JAMES PALACE



The official line is, certainly as far as the University of London is
concerned where I did my studies and I am a sessional lecturer:

If it's Greek, it's always S'

If it's not, it's up to the individual as long as he or she is
consistent throughout.

Therefore, always Achilles' heel, Eros' statue, Nikolaidis' penalty
shot, Stavros' kebab house, Bacchus' wine, Androcles' lion, but if it's
not Greek, you can say James's Square or James' Square as long as it's
consistent throughout.

Good post, but, I believe the normal English grammar rules for
apostrophes are generally dropped on street name signs. Therefore if a
subway station is named after a street it may be appropriate for its
name to be spelt the same way.

PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant

Adrian.

wrote in message
ps.com...


PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant

Adrian.

Whilst an urn may be Grecian, the language is Greek.

Jim Hawkins

Jim Hawkins wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...


PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant

Adrian.

Whilst an urn may be Grecian, the language is Greek.

Jim Hawkins

And, unfortunately in street venacular, Greek has come to mean buggery.
Therefore it is more pleasing, to my ears, to hear that "The
Watercress Line has a Grecian locomative" (a locomative imported from
Greece), than "The Watercress Line has a Greek locomative" (a buggered
locomotive!)

Adrian.

wrote:
Jim Hawkins wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...


PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant

Adrian.

Whilst an urn may be Grecian, the language is Greek.

Jim Hawkins

And, unfortunately in street venacular, Greek has come to mean buggery.
Therefore it is more pleasing, to my ears, to hear that "The
Watercress Line has a Grecian locomative" (a locomative imported from
Greece), than "The Watercress Line has a Greek locomative" (a buggered
locomotive!)

Adrian.

So, Adrian, a locomative becomes a locomotive only when buggered?

Personally speaking I will be keeping my own private parts well away
from the firebox!

Marc.

Jim Hawkins wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...


PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant

Adrian.

Whilst an urn may be Grecian, the language is Greek.

Jim Hawkins


Mou ine Ellinika

--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx

www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955

"Jim Hawkins" wrote in news:ZOUng.23334$q_4.10692
@fe06.highwinds-media.phx:


PedantGrecian is generally a more pleasing way to describe things
appertaining to the country Greece, than Greek./pedant


No, not since the year 2000.

:-)