Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?

Richard [in SG19]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Richard M Willis wrote:

Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?

It seems quite likely.

Of course this is going to make a lot of PrePay calculations a lot harder to
work out because of trips that can be done both through Zone 1 and bypassing
it (e.g. Barking to Richmond - I think the GOBLIN, and for that matter the
Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction line are coming in as well)...

Richard M Willis wrote:
Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?

Yes. Maybe here.

The franchise for North London Railways (= DC lines, WLL, NLL, GOBLIN)
will be specced by and answerable to TfL rather than DfT. Zonal prepay
fares will be introduced immediately, and Hampstead Heath will be moved
into Zone 2 (possibly along with Willesden Junction).

Some time afterwards, the DC lines will be transferred to LUL and the
service will be all Bakerloo line all the way to Watford. A new
timetable will integrate services on the WLL, NLL and GOBLIN, with more
through trains between the three lines, and with a new service from
Queen's Park to Stratford via Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead
(rejoining the NLL at Camden) maintaining the service to these current
DC-line stations.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Richard M Willis wrote:

Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?

It seems quite likely.

Of course this is going to make a lot of PrePay calculations a lot
harder to work out because of trips that can be done both through
Zone 1 and bypassing it (e.g. Barking to Richmond - I think the
GOBLIN, and for that matter the Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction
line are coming in as well)...

Not entirely sure on that.
There was a discussion related to this very recently either in here or
in uk.railway, and for some journies that can (but don't necessarily
require) travel through/via zone1, tfl have set a fare that would be
charged by a ticket machine, and one would reasonably expect pre-pay
to follow the same rules. The fare set in some cases assumes travel
via zone 1 and in other cases assumes travel without going via zone 1.

John B wrote:
Richard M Willis wrote:
Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?

Yes. Maybe here.

The franchise for North London Railways (= DC lines, WLL, NLL, GOBLIN)
will be specced by and answerable to TfL rather than DfT. Zonal prepay
fares will be introduced immediately, and Hampstead Heath will be moved
into Zone 2 (possibly along with Willesden Junction).

Some time afterwards, the DC lines will be transferred to LUL and the
service will be all Bakerloo line all the way to Watford. A new
timetable will integrate services on the WLL, NLL and GOBLIN, with more
through trains between the three lines, and with a new service from
Queen's Park to Stratford via Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead
(rejoining the NLL at Camden) maintaining the service to these current
DC-line stations.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org
Please tell me that they aren't going to extend the Bakerloo all the
way to Watford. As bad as the 313's are I don't see what the point is
let alone the expense of reinstating the 4th rail.
I had assumed that whoever held the NLL franchise would run the Watford
line as well . This is a really dumb idea.

Kevin

Matt Wheeler wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Richard M Willis wrote:

Did I hear somewhere that when SilverLink's franchise on the
NLL / WatfordDC comes up for renewal, they'll be mandated to
accept Oyster PrePay ?
It seems quite likely.

Of course this is going to make a lot of PrePay calculations a lot
harder to work out because of trips that can be done both through
Zone 1 and bypassing it (e.g. Barking to Richmond - I think the
GOBLIN, and for that matter the Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction
line are coming in as well)...

Not entirely sure on that.
There was a discussion related to this very recently either in here or
in uk.railway, and for some journies that can (but don't necessarily
require) travel through/via zone1, tfl have set a fare that would be
charged by a ticket machine, and one would reasonably expect pre-pay
to follow the same rules. The fare set in some cases assumes travel
via zone 1 and in other cases assumes travel without going via zone 1.

Yes, and whilst that is true, some journey solutions may have to be
revisited by TfL when North London Railway comes into the PAYG system,
because many journeys that are possible directly by NLR lines are
currently only possible via Zone 1 on PAYG.

The solution may not be that difficult - make passengers avoiding Zone 1
perform an extra or separate validation. In many cases, this is already
done. For example, the route used for Stratford to West Hampstead can be
determined fairly easily by which gates are exited at West Hampstead.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On 22 Jun 2006 05:09:05 -0700, Kev wrote:

Please tell me that they aren't going to extend the Bakerloo all the
way to Watford. As bad as the 313's are I don't see what the point is
let alone the expense of reinstating the 4th rail.
I had assumed that whoever held the NLL franchise would run the Watford
line as well . This is a really dumb idea.

My guess is that the reasoning is as follows:

TfL consider there to be an oversupply (9tph) of off-peak service
between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone. Once they start paying
for the Silverlink franchise, they want to cut this to 6tph. They also
want the Bakerloo, where it runs, to have at least a 6tph
turn-up-and-go frequency. So the only possibilities are 6tph Bakerloo
+ 0tph Silverlink, or 0tph Bakerloo + 6tph Silverlink. An increase in
the Silverlink service isn't possible because Silverlinks run on the
WCML Slow Lines for the last 1.5 miles into Euston. So they've decided
on a complete switchover to Bakerloo off-peak.

This doesn't mean they can't continue to run a peak-hour service to
Euston, but I suppose it's cheaper for them to just not bother.

I can't see the change being popular with passengers, though. Journey
times to Euston, King's Cross, the City, etc, will significantly
increase.

asdf wrote:
On 22 Jun 2006 05:09:05 -0700, Kev wrote:

Please tell me that they aren't going to extend the Bakerloo all the
way to Watford. As bad as the 313's are I don't see what the point is
let alone the expense of reinstating the 4th rail.
I had assumed that whoever held the NLL franchise would run the Watford
line as well . This is a really dumb idea.

My guess is that the reasoning is as follows:

TfL consider there to be an oversupply (9tph) of off-peak service
between Queens Park and Harrow & Wealdstone. Once they start paying
for the Silverlink franchise, they want to cut this to 6tph. They also
want the Bakerloo, where it runs, to have at least a 6tph
turn-up-and-go frequency. So the only possibilities are 6tph Bakerloo
+ 0tph Silverlink, or 0tph Bakerloo + 6tph Silverlink. An increase in
the Silverlink service isn't possible because Silverlinks run on the
WCML Slow Lines for the last 1.5 miles into Euston. So they've decided
on a complete switchover to Bakerloo off-peak.

This doesn't mean they can't continue to run a peak-hour service to
Euston, but I suppose it's cheaper for them to just not bother.

I can't see the change being popular with passengers, though. Journey
times to Euston, King's Cross, the City, etc, will significantly
increase.
But then when do the train operators ever give a toss about the
passengers. I suppose the hope is that people who use Kilburn High Rd
and South Hampstead will get so ****ed off they will find other routes
and then these two stations can be closed. So that will free up
capacity at Euston, two sites that can be sold for development, two
stations that don't have to be staffed or maintained and a bunch of
passengers who have to find an alternative route to work.
A success story all round. Now where I have I heard the one about
running services down before. I'll give Queens Park to the NLL 2 or 3
years then that will go the way of Croxley ang the Graham Rd curve.

Kevin

"Kev" wrote in message

Please tell me that they aren't going to extend the Bakerloo all the
way to Watford. As bad as the 313's are I don't see what the point is
let alone the expense of reinstating the 4th rail.

Isn't the fourth (and third) rail all in place ? I thought the 313s on
the DC service used a four-rail supply. Maybe I've been wrong.

If LUL really want to goto Watford Junction, they might do better than
actually getting the Metro Line connected to the old Croxley Green
spur (the one whose rails have been lifted, but which isn't officially
closed)


Richard [in SG19]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article ,
e (Richard M Willis) wrote:

"Kev" wrote in message

Please tell me that they aren't going to extend the Bakerloo all the
way to Watford. As bad as the 313's are I don't see what the point
is let alone the expense of reinstating the 4th rail.

Isn't the fourth (and third) rail all in place ? I thought the 313s on
the DC service used a four-rail supply. Maybe I've been wrong.

Much of the fourth rail is there but dropped onto the sleepers. The 313s
have always been third rail only though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel