Further to a previous discussion on u.t.london in which I mentioned how
the new West London Line station at Shepherd's Bush station is
progressing, I've noticed something odd about it - the northbound
(down?) platform is being constructed on either side of the
bi-directional southbound signal on that side of the line!

This seems rather odd - there will either be a signal in the middle of
the platform, or the signal is being moved elsewhere - something which I
thought was not meant to be happening until renewal is due in a few
years' time. Any ideas?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:15:01 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Further to a previous discussion on u.t.london in which I mentioned how
the new West London Line station at Shepherd's Bush station is
progressing, I've noticed something odd about it - the northbound
(down?) platform is being constructed on either side of the
bi-directional southbound signal on that side of the line!

This seems rather odd - there will either be a signal in the middle of
the platform, or the signal is being moved elsewhere - something which I
thought was not meant to be happening until renewal is due in a few
years' time. Any ideas?

Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!


--
Peter Lawrence

"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!

AIUI the rule book now requires a train not booked to stop at a platform,
but which is required to stop by a signal at the platform end, to stop
immediately before the platform until the signal clears. I recently
travelled out of Paddington on a Sunday, when the Up and Down Main were
closed for relaying. The Down Relief signal at Hayes was red to protect an
up HEx crossing from the Airport branch to the Up Relief, and we stopped
short of the platform until the signal cleared.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:
"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!

AIUI the rule book now requires a train not booked to stop at a platform,
but which is required to stop by a signal at the platform end, to stop
immediately before the platform until the signal clears. I recently
travelled out of Paddington on a Sunday, when the Up and Down Main were
closed for relaying. The Down Relief signal at Hayes was red to protect an
up HEx crossing from the Airport branch to the Up Relief, and we stopped
short of the platform until the signal cleared.

Peter

If Southern Region could have done that back in the slam door days they
could have avoided all sorts of problems. I can remember members of
the public joining a charter train signal checked at Wimledon. Said
train was not going to Waterloo but taking the West London Line.

Adrian.

In article ,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!

"Wrong line" movements on the West London Line are not that uncommon, but I
suppose that signal stops are fairly rare.

--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband

Peter Masson wrote:
"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!

AIUI the rule book now requires a train not booked to stop at a platform,
but which is required to stop by a signal at the platform end, to stop
immediately before the platform until the signal clears. I recently
travelled out of Paddington on a Sunday, when the Up and Down Main were
closed for relaying. The Down Relief signal at Hayes was red to protect an
up HEx crossing from the Airport branch to the Up Relief, and we stopped
short of the platform until the signal cleared.

Peter


On South Eastern they seem to crawl through stations like Lewisham
hoping that it will clear before they have to stop, but I don't
remember being stopped outside the station when on a non-stop.

In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote:

"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train
will stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train
must move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is
inefficient but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line'
movement, the need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!

AIUI the rule book now requires a train not booked to stop at a
platform, but which is required to stop by a signal at the platform
end, to stop immediately before the platform until the signal clears.
I recently travelled out of Paddington on a Sunday, when the Up and
Down Main were closed for relaying. The Down Relief signal at Hayes
was red to protect an up HEx crossing from the Airport branch to the
Up Relief, and we stopped short of the platform until the signal
cleared.

That doesn't seem to be the practice at Hitchin. Non-stopping up trains
from the Cambridge branch regularly seem to stop at the platform.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...
|
| "Peter Lawrence" wrote
|
| Maybe there is now no safety objection to a signal in mid-platform
| since slam doors have gone. If the signal is at danger the train will
| stop there but the doors will not open; when it clears the train must
| move on to the platform end for the station stop. This is inefficient
| but not unsafe. Since the signal is for 'wrong line' movement, the
| need to stop at it may never occur anyhow!
|
| AIUI the rule book now requires a train not booked to stop at a platform,
| but which is required to stop by a signal at the platform end, to stop
| immediately before the platform until the signal clears.

That's going to be a bit tricky at Southampton Central. Each platform has a
signal at each end of it, but the curvature of the station together with the
presence of a very substantial overbridge means you can't see the signal
until well along the platform. There are "OFF" indicators provided so the
platform staff can check the driver has the road before giving the "tip".
Banner repeaters would have to be provided on all lines at both ends of the
station to allow this rule (if it does indeed exist) to be complied with.
There weren't any there today when I came home from work (the maximum speed
in the station area is 40mph and the signalling is four aspect). The
timetable may not currently have any passenger services booked to run
through, but who is to say that might not change? And there are some booked
ECS workings through.

And Southampton Central is not unique. There must be many locations where
similar sighting restrictions apply, especially in low speed areas (in high
speed areas the time-in-sight requirements would almost certainly result in
said banner signals being provided).

I have been on a number of slam-door trains which stopped out-of course at
platforms. I would have thought that with modern power door trains this
would be less of a safety issue, unless some clown operates the emergency
egress and does a runner. Rather more of an issue is the absent-minded
driver of a long train who stops at the wrong mark and realises too late to
give in time the special bell code to the guard warning him not to release
the doors. This happens not at all infrequently and is not prevented by the
rule book item mentioned above. Only a few days ago I read a report of a
driver who required *three* attempts to stop at the correct mark - and the
guard (not being able to see from his position what was going on) released
the doors each time.

There are a number of stations with either signals to divide platforms or
"X" plates - Birmingham New Street and Bristol Temple Meads spring to mind.
I am sure we had a long discussion about these some time ago, and this
included what the driver of a train requiring all the platform length or
booked to the far end should do on the approach. There must surely be
something in the signalling system that tells him the platform is part
occupied in these circumstances.
--
- Yokel -
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