Following on from my previous thread, it seems an all zones travelcard from
Gatwick (return), even if it does say "FCC only", as it'll be valid on all
overground trains within the Greater London area, so as long as they change
for an FCC (ex-Thameslink - same ****, different name) train at East Croydon
then their tickets should be valid absolutely fine.

They could, of course, get confused (easily done, being Aussie tourists) and
forget to change, and stay on the Victoria train all the way to Gatwick. If
they did do this (providing it wasn't the Gatwick Express, and stopped at
East Croydon). Would there be much chance of them getting a fine for doing
this? I'm thinking the chances are no-one would notice as the ticket
machines at Gatwick wouldn't be able to tell what train they came in on,
leaving the only potential for a fine being if a ticket inspector noticed
they weren't on an FCC train between East Croydon and Gatwick, but
presumably they can excercise a bit of discretion in these matters?

But anyway, it looks like the cheap tickets (£16.60 for 2 adults, 1 kid,
with family railcard - all zones travelcard return from Gatwick) should do
the job fine for the journey from Heathrow to Gatwick via Barons Court,
Victoria, and changing at East Croydon.

Just a couple of questions though:

1. Will the lack of the tickets having been through any ticket machine
before getting on the tube replacement bus at T4 (or tube at Hatton Cross)
cause any problems (as effectively they're using it as a single ticket)?
(Sorry if someone did answer this before!)

2. Will changing from a Southern tran to a FCC train at East Croydon involve
much in the way of stairs?

Cheers,

Peter
--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

AstraVanMan wrote:

But anyway, it looks like the cheap tickets (£16.60 for 2 adults, 1 kid,
with family railcard - all zones travelcard return from Gatwick) should do
the job fine for the journey from Heathrow to Gatwick via Barons Court,
Victoria, and changing at East Croydon.

I believe there's a Southern-only version for even less. That might
make sense for you, as it sounds like you want to use Southern.

1. Will the lack of the tickets having been through any ticket machine
before getting on the tube replacement bus at T4 (or tube at Hatton Cross)
cause any problems (as effectively they're using it as a single ticket)?
(Sorry if someone did answer this before!)

Doubt it. (I'm assuming these are being bought in advance, as the Tube
ticket office at Heathrow wouldn't be able to issue such a thing, as
you're not strictly meant to do it in that order).

2. Will changing from a Southern tran to a FCC train at East Croydon involve
much in the way of stairs?

It might be same-platform, but if it isn't I recall that there are
(long) ramps but no stairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...g_-_270404.jpg
might show what I mean.

Neil

AstraVanMan wrote:
2. Will changing from a Southern tran to a FCC train at East Croydon involve
much in the way of stairs?

FCC down trains use platform 2; Southern down trains use platform 2
(less often) or platform 3. I suspect FCC downs could be put into
platform 3 sometimes, but I've never seen it. However, even if a
platform change is required, there *aren't* any stairs at East Croydon
- both the street - platform level access, and the inter-platform
access, is by nice long ramps.

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

"Neil Williams" wrote:
But anyway, it looks like the cheap tickets (£16.60 for 2 adults, 1 kid,
with family railcard - all zones travelcard return from Gatwick) should do
the job fine for the journey from Heathrow to Gatwick via Barons Court,
Victoria, and changing at East Croydon.

I believe there's a Southern-only version for even less. That might
make sense for you, as it sounds like you want to use Southern.

Heh - it would do, but if there is such a thing, it seems that no sod wants
to tell me about it! The guy in my local station (Bracknell) was extremely
helpful, and whilst he didn't notice the £16.60 fare straight away, telling
me about the £25 or so fare that was Gatwick Express only, I mentioned it
and he found it. The girl on the phone at National Rail Enquiries didn't
seem to have a clue about a Southern-only ticket either, but I don't doubt
that someone at Gatwick might know though! Though I don't see a lot of
point in paying extra for the Gatwick Express, as Southern seem to do a
fairly frequent service that's only 4 minutes longer - are there other
benefits to the Gatwick Express, like being able to check in luggage
directly from the station or something?

1. Will the lack of the tickets having been through any ticket machine
before getting on the tube replacement bus at T4 (or tube at Hatton Cross)
cause any problems (as effectively they're using it as a single ticket)?
(Sorry if someone did answer this before!)

Doubt it. (I'm assuming these are being bought in advance, as the Tube
ticket office at Heathrow wouldn't be able to issue such a thing, as
you're not strictly meant to do it in that order).

Indeed ;-). At the end of the day though there could have been all manner
of reasons why those tickets hadn't gone through a machine - barriers open
at the start of journey - travelcards only used on buses, etc etc, so like
you say, I can't see it being an issue.

2. Will changing from a Southern tran to a FCC train at East Croydon
involve
much in the way of stairs?

It might be same-platform, but if it isn't I recall that there are
(long) ramps but no stairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...and_-_Thamesli
nk_train_exits_south_-_Evening_-_270404.jpg
might show what I mean.

Cheers for that - they'd probably be fine with stairs anyway, but those
ramps would make things a bit easier.

--
"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died."

FCC down trains use platform 2; Southern down trains use platform 2
(less often) or platform 3. I suspect FCC downs could be put into
platform 3 sometimes, but I've never seen it. However, even if a
platform change is required, there *aren't* any stairs at East Croydon
- both the street - platform level access, and the inter-platform
access, is by nice long ramps.

I guess it must depend on the time of day you pass through. Whenever I've
passed through in the morning peaks the FCC downs have all been using
platform 3, and during the day I've seen also seen many using platform 3.
During the evening peak you get the odd one routed onto the slow lines and
ending up in platform 5. Any Southern downs coming in on the slow lines
also tend to end up on platform 5.

However as you say the real issue for the OP is that there aren't any stairs
to worry about, you just get the occasional frantic dash down and up the
ramps if the platform is changed at the last moment.

G.

AstraVanMan wrote:

Heh - it would do, but if there is such a thing, it seems that no sod wants
to tell me about it!

Not even Trainline, which used to do Travelcards. I might have been
mistaken, and the Southern ticket might just have been a Cheap Day
Return, thinking about it.

Though I don't see a lot of
point in paying extra for the Gatwick Express, as Southern seem to do a
fairly frequent service that's only 4 minutes longer - are there other
benefits to the Gatwick Express, like being able to check in luggage
directly from the station or something?

Not that I recall. Just prestige, I reckon. It's not a bad service
(I've used it as tickets from further afield tend to be routed Any
Permitted and so include it at no extra charge) but it's not worth the
difference in fares if there is one. Indeed, Southern's new stock is
probably more comfortable than GatEx's.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
Though I don't see a lot of
point in paying extra for the Gatwick Express, as Southern seem to do a
fairly frequent service that's only 4 minutes longer - are there other
benefits to the Gatwick Express, like being able to check in luggage
directly from the station or something?

Not that I recall. Just prestige, I reckon. It's not a bad service
(I've used it as tickets from further afield tend to be routed Any
Permitted and so include it at no extra charge) but it's not worth the
difference in fares if there is one. Indeed, Southern's new stock is
probably more comfortable than GatEx's.


Trolley service, ability to buy ticket on train, less crowded at peak
times. I wouldn't pay my own money for any of these, but if I'm
travelling on business it's a different story...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"AstraVanMan" wrote in message
...
Following on from my previous thread, it seems an all zones travelcard
from
Gatwick (return), even if it does say "FCC only", as it'll be valid on all
overground trains within the Greater London area, so as long as they
change
for an FCC (ex-Thameslink - same ****, different name) train at East
Croydon
then their tickets should be valid absolutely fine.

I would try and find a "not gatwick express" version of the all-zone
travelcard, and use Southern from Victoria. This shouldn't cost much (if
anything) more that the "FCC only" travelcard, and they will avoid ending up
on the truly abysmal FCC rolling stock.

East Croydon is a busy station, and they're likely to have to change
platforms (long ramps, dodging a lot of people coming the other way) between
Southern and FCC services. The change between the underground and main-line
at Victoria is quite a long walk, but at least it's fairly level.

They could, of course, get confused (easily done, being Aussie tourists)
and
forget to change, and stay on the Victoria train all the way to Gatwick.
If
they did do this (providing it wasn't the Gatwick Express, and stopped at
East Croydon). Would there be much chance of them getting a fine for
doing
this?
I'm thinking the chances are no-one would notice as the ticket
machines at Gatwick wouldn't be able to tell what train they came in on,
leaving the only potential for a fine being if a ticket inspector noticed
they weren't on an FCC train between East Croydon and Gatwick, but
presumably they can excercise a bit of discretion in these matters?

Gatwick is an open station with no ticket gates and minimal ticket checks.

There is a good chance of having tickets checked (FCC or Southern) between
East Croydon and Gatwick (especially on off-peak trains) and I would *not*
assume the inspectors would exercise discretion - they're on commission ...


D A Stocks



Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php

David A Stocks wrote:
I would try and find a "not gatwick express" version of the all-zone
travelcard, and use Southern from Victoria. This shouldn't cost much (if
anything) more that the "FCC only" travelcard, and they will avoid ending up
on the truly abysmal FCC rolling stock.

Sadly, there isn't one.

Not sure what your problem is with the Thameslink-route 319s though.
Obviously there aren't enough of them, making the peak horrid, and the
pantograph cars are a bit bleak and claustrophobic - but otherwise I'd
rate them as perfectly OK trains.

I guess I'm used to 1967TS (Victoria line), 313s (Silverlink Metro and
eastern FCC) and 317s (eastern FCC)... compared to that little set,
cattle-trucks would rate as perfectly OK trains...

East Croydon is a busy station, and they're likely to have to change
platforms (long ramps, dodging a lot of people coming the other way) between
Southern and FCC services. The change between the underground and main-line
at Victoria is quite a long walk, but at least it's fairly level.

Not *that* likely to have to change platforms at EC, and not an
especially level interchange at Victoria either. I'd definitely
recommend the former to anyone with luggage.

I'm thinking the chances are no-one would notice as the ticket
machines at Gatwick wouldn't be able to tell what train they came in on,
leaving the only potential for a fine being if a ticket inspector noticed
they weren't on an FCC train between East Croydon and Gatwick, but
presumably they can excercise a bit of discretion in these matters?

Gatwick is an open station with no ticket gates and minimal ticket checks.

There is a good chance of having tickets checked (FCC or Southern) between
East Croydon and Gatwick (especially on off-peak trains) and I would *not*
assume the inspectors would exercise discretion - they're on commission ...

Agreed.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:


Not sure what your problem is with the Thameslink-route 319s though.
Obviously there aren't enough of them, making the peak horrid, and the
pantograph cars are a bit bleak and claustrophobic - but otherwise I'd
rate them as perfectly OK trains.


The main problem with them is that they are completely unsuitable for
the airport run - minimal luggage space (except overhead racks, which
are useless if your bag is big or heavy), which means you get in the
way of commuters, and also not great for families etc (no tables).