In message , at
13:08:57 on Wed, 5 Jul 2006, Chris Johns remarked:
A lot of First York's busses do have some route branding. The old no.4
buses had a light blue stripe along the top (over the windows) that I
think said something like "Univerity - City - Acomb",

Those are the now purple bendybuses.

and a similar thing exists for at least routes 1, 5 and 6 (possibly
others too, but they're the ones I've seen).

Good, so now they just need to extend this to the P&R
--
Roland Perry

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Ebbens wrote:

Have a chameleon bus that change colours ;-)

Or just have electronic blinds on front, side and rear, with each
showing full destination details. If the stop layout is confusing,
change that.

IMO, because of the operational limits it causes, route branding
doesn't really work.

I was in Reading at the weekend (for the first time in at least
a decade).

The Buses there were all different colours indicating the
route(s). I spent ages trying to find (and read) the
operators name and address and eventually discovered
that they are all operating by Reading Buses.

So it can be done. (As for that matter is the possibility
of a municipal operator not being taken over and rebranded
by one of the majors, how did they manage it?)

tim

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
13:58:33 on Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Neil Williams remarked:
IMO, the way First overbrand makes them look shoddy and unprofessional.

I took a party to York at the weekend, and they commented on how
confusing it was to have five different (First-operated) Park-and-ride
routes, all using identical looking buses. In other towns you have buses
which are coloured to go along with the routes (Green, White, Red etc).

The buses use different bus stops (for each colour), and they are not
very easy to find; so being able to spot the relevant bus at a distance
and "chase" it would be very useful.

The Exeter ones are all yellow and blue.. - though each carries a
largeish Sowton/Honiton Road/Matford name

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Richard J. wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

This is of course true for a single binary bit, and very appropriate for
Cambridge which built the first general service computer in the world in
1949*.

* To be more precise, I mean the first fully operational and practical
stored-program digital computer, EDSAC 1, which was *the* computer for
Cambridge University 1949-1958.

Hmph. If you add enough qualifications, you can claim pretty much anything
as the First Computer. I'm sticking with Baby for now - after all, if it's
not the Mancunians, it's Herr Zuse, and that would never do .

tom

--
NTK now entirely filled with google links -- NTK

MIG wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
13:58:33 on Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Neil Williams
remarked:
IMO, the way First overbrand makes them look shoddy and unprofessional.
I took a party to York at the weekend, and they commented on how
confusing it was to have five different (First-operated) Park-and-ride
routes, all using identical looking buses. In other towns you have buses
which are coloured to go along with the routes (Green, White, Red etc).

The buses use different bus stops (for each colour), and they are not
very easy to find; so being able to spot the relevant bus at a distance
and "chase" it would be very useful.
--
Roland Perry


I wonder if that's a branding issue though? More likely they've got a
bus garage with one fleet of buses in it which they put on the routes
that they operate. It would be very restrictive to paint them
according to a specific route, and very confusing when they inevitably
had to use them on the wrong route.



The newly painted Darts for 'CoastHopper 157' are usually found either
on the '95' or '57' - with either a Merc Minibus or '57' branded Dart on
the 157. Confusingly the 357 is now operated by the '56 Airport' Dart
rather then the Yellow Devon County Slimbus

In message , at 16:09:08 on Wed, 5 Jul
2006, "tim (back at home)" remarked:
So it can be done. (As for that matter is the possibility
of a municipal operator not being taken over and rebranded
by one of the majors, how did they manage it?)

Like Nottingham City Transport by "being big enough" I think. It still
seems to be run as a genuine public service.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:14:20 on
Tue, 4 Jul 2006, Peter Masson remarked:
I haven't been there for some time, but when St Pauls/City Thameslink
opened, the northern exit went through the concourse of the former Holborn
Viaduct station.

Today, it emerges under an office block and a short alleyway to the main
road.

Allegedly there are parts of the original Holborn Viaduct incorporated
into the northern ticket hall, but I've never been able to work out
what. (Strangely, although I remember the opening of St Paul's
Thameslink and the fact that it was briefly open to the sky before it
was capped with a building, I seem to be too young to remember Holborn
Viaduct at all.)

This was discussed a while back in some detail, and this fantastic site
was mentioned:

http://www.loveplums.co.uk/Tube/Holb...t_station.html

which may help clear up some of the mysteries.

In uk.railway Roland Perry wrote:

: I took a party to York at the weekend, and they commented on how
: confusing it was to have five different (First-operated) Park-and-ride
: routes, all using identical looking buses. In other towns you have buses
: which are coloured to go along with the routes (Green, White, Red etc).

Most P&R schemes seem to be paid for by local authorities; York's is
run without any real subsidy which is why the livery is so First-like.

It would be almost impossible to keep 5 small fleets of different buses
in service anyway, without lots of spare vehicles. The generic P&R
livery gives some advertising advantage without confusing people if a
non-P&R bus turns up.

Geoff
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Given a choice, I would probably Geoff Short
choose the life of a hobbit"
- Mithrilian

In message , at 19:51:17 on Wed, 5
Jul 2006, Geoff remarked:
: I took a party to York at the weekend, and they commented on how
: confusing it was to have five different (First-operated) Park-and-ride
: routes, all using identical looking buses. In other towns you have buses
: which are coloured to go along with the routes (Green, White, Red etc).

Most P&R schemes seem to be paid for by local authorities; York's is
run without any real subsidy which is why the livery is so First-like.

iirc, the Cambridge P&R runs on the basis that the car parking is
provided by the council (and not charged for), and the bus company keeps
all the fares. York's scheme felt much the same. Nottingham is slanted
more towards paying per car, to park, and getting a free bus ride
(although you pay the "parking" fee to the bus driver).

It would be almost impossible to keep 5 small fleets of different buses
in service anyway, without lots of spare vehicles.

There seem to be many counter-examples around.

The generic P&R livery gives some advertising advantage without
confusing people if a non-P&R bus turns up.

What part of the livery says "P&R", I don't recall seeing any
distinguishing feature. I can look closer next time I go!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

Like Nottingham City Transport by "being big enough" I think. It still
seems to be run as a genuine public service.

So does MK Metro, give or take an element of Julian Peddle playing
buses. It remains to be seen what Arriva will do to it long-term.

Metro, notably, is not and never has been a municipal operator; MK has
never had such a thing, it being served by United Counties (NBC) in the
nationalised days. It does, however, act like one at times.

Neil