In message .com,
Mizter T writes

I think Livingstone is just thinking aloud on this issue - which is
fair enough, given that much of the Underground system wasn't built
with the possibilities of sustained heatwaves in mind.

Although average temperatures are now one degree higher than a century
ago, there were several heatwaves in the Edwardian period - particularly
1911, which saw five months' of sustained high temperatures with a
number of days exceeding 35C.

But in those days much of the rolling stock was better designed for a
through-flow of air, with relatively large "hopper" windows and, in a
number of cases, open (but gated) platforms at the ends of carriages.

I also suspect that staff were able to be much more pragmatic in dealing
quickly with breakdowns. These days, H&S procedures often seem to
endanger health and safety by causing long delays.

As for all the reminders about carrying water (I was bombarded with them
on the tube yesterday) - what next? Will nanny remind us to wrap up warm
in cold weather and check that we have tied our shoelaces for fear that
we might drip and fall down the gap?
--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry writes:

I also suspect that staff were able to be much more pragmatic in
dealing quickly with breakdowns. These days, H&S procedures often seem
to endanger health and safety by causing long delays.

I think that the HSE need reminding that the H is for 'health' and as it
comes before 'safety' in their title should be a primary concern. Yet
(at least the perception is that) they seem to concentrate almost
entirely on safety.

In article , Paul Terry
writes

But in those days much of the rolling stock was better designed for a
through-flow of air, with relatively large "hopper" windows and, in a
number of cases, open (but gated) platforms at the ends of carriages.

I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the
passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes -
between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer
and had air conditioning.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100 someone who may be congokid
wrote this:-

I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the
passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes -
between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system.

Some photographs of the old electric trains on Tyneside appear to
show them moving with open sliding doors. I don't know if my eyes
are deceiving me though.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

Some photographs of the old electric trains on Tyneside appear to
show them moving with open sliding doors. I don't know if my eyes
are deceiving me though.



Yes, they did have manual sliding doors. When I lived in the North
East, one particular colleague (now retired) recalled how, in those
days, he would relieve himself in an open doorway while the train was
moving! (Apparently it was common practice on late-night trains!)

congokid wrote:

I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the
passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes -
between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer
and had air conditioning.

Open is the default setting on the Thai railways, at least on
non-aircon stock...

Neil

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100, congokid wrote:

In article , Paul Terry
writes


I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the
passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes

Nope, the passengers were too lazy to close them.

Around that time the last of the non power door carrages were withdrawn
as people kept managing to fall out of moving trains and their relations
kept going to the media about those 'unsafe trains'.

between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer
and had air conditioning.

Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are
power doors though.
If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision
for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock.

In article na.org.au,
Matthew Geier writes
On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:36:12 +0100, congokid wrote:

In article , Paul Terry
writes


I may be mistaken but in January 1989 in Sydney I'm sure that the
passenger doors were kept open - presumably for ventilation purposes

Nope, the passengers were too lazy to close them.

I didn't realise it was up to passengers to close them. I probably
expected them to be controlled by the driver, like on the London
underground.

Around that time the last of the non power door carrages were withdrawn
as people kept managing to fall out of moving trains and their relations
kept going to the media about those 'unsafe trains'.

between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer
and had air conditioning.

Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are
power doors though.
If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision
for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock.

I think I was on about three trains in total, so not at all a
representative sample. Thanks for the clarification.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:38:32 +0100, congokid wrote:

In article na.org.au,
Matthew Geier writes

between stations on at least some of the older trains on the Cityrail
system. This year the trains I travelled on there appeared to be newer
and had air conditioning.

Nope. Probably only 2/3 of the fleet is actually air conditioned. All are
power doors though.
If it has opening windows it isn't air conditioned. There is no provision
for opening the windows on Air conditioned stock.

One thing I have noticed, and I could be imaging things (or just getting
older :-), is that as the proportion of trains with air-conditioning has
been increasing, the Sydney city tunnels are getting hotter.
Presumably with each train dumping several kw extra of waste heat into
the tunnels it's raising the average temperature.

It's probably no so much an issue with the Sub-Surface lines with their
larger tunnels and frequent 'smoke vents', but I could see this being a
serious issue with the deep tube trains - if you fit air conditioning to
any new build rolling stock, just where is the AC system going to dump
it's waste heat ?. The tubes are already too hot. A serious amount of
civil engineering would be needed to improve air-flows through the tubes
to carry the waste heat off. (And probably electrical works to increase
the capacity of the traction power network to take the extra electrical
load of the air conditioning plant on each train).

The tube tunnels themselves need some sort of cooling system fitted
before even thinking about the trains.
I seem to recall somewhere that pumping chilled water through pipes
buried in the platform has been tried at at least one LU station.

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:42:34 +1000 someone who may be Matthew Geier
wrote this:-

It's probably no so much an issue with the Sub-Surface lines with their
larger tunnels and frequent 'smoke vents', but I could see this being a
serious issue with the deep tube trains - if you fit air conditioning to
any new build rolling stock, just where is the AC system going to dump
it's waste heat ?. The tubes are already too hot. A serious amount of
civil engineering would be needed to improve air-flows through the tubes
to carry the waste heat off. (And probably electrical works to increase
the capacity of the traction power network to take the extra electrical
load of the air conditioning plant on each train).

One of the reasons that rubber tyres have not replaced steel ones,
as the proponents of the Paris Metro confidently predicted, is that
the rubber wheels give off a lot of heat, which has to be dealt with
in some way including beefing up ventilation and air-conditioning.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54