First Class has become a peculiar anomaly the FGW trains I take from
Ealing Broadway most days: it's really Third Class. What seems to
happen is that nobody appears to actually pay for and travel in First
Class, which is usually entirely populated by drunks and/or the most
aggressive looking kids - essentially people who the conductors won't
touch. It is always the filthiest and smelliest section on the train.

It seems that the bigger seats are reserved for those who are most
confident in telling any staff to f*** off rather than anybody who pays
for it. To be fair to the conductors, I have occasionally seen them
attempt to move people on from First Class (a couple of times, I have
even seen people complaining) but never successfully.

Jase


wrote:
I seem to remember reading somewhere, possibly on this group (but now
of course I can't find it), that within zones 1-6 there was no such
thing as first class, i.e. if you had a travelcard you could sit in
first class carriages on NR services up to the boundary of the zones
on your travelcard.

Paul Oter wrote:

What is your source for that? Are you saying that if someone wanted to
make a day-trip from, say, Cambridge to East Croydon via King's Cross
Thameslink and travel first class all the way they couldn't use a first
class peak travelcard but would have to buy two separate first class
day returns?

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't believe there is such a thing as a First
Class 1-6 Travelcard.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
Paul Oter wrote:

What is your source for that? Are you saying that if someone wanted to
make a day-trip from, say, Cambridge to East Croydon via King's Cross
Thameslink and travel first class all the way they couldn't use a first
class peak travelcard but would have to buy two separate first class
day returns?

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't believe there is such a thing as a First
Class 1-6 Travelcard.

You already said that. What is the source of your "belief"?

Section K of the National Fares Manuals (page K1.2) explains how to
calculate prices for First ClassTravelcard season tickets for travel
within various combinations of zones including zones 1-6 and even zone
1 only.

So there *is* such a thing as a First Class 1-6 Travelcard, at least
for 7 day seasons and longer.

PaulO

Paul Oter wrote:

Section K of the National Fares Manuals (page K1.2) explains how to
calculate prices for First ClassTravelcard season tickets for travel
within various combinations of zones including zones 1-6 and even zone
1 only.

So there *is* such a thing as a First Class 1-6 Travelcard, at least
for 7 day seasons and longer.

I have read it, and stand corrected. Given, however, that a First
Class ODTC is a TOC-specific (Thameslink) product - I think it's only
them - I'm not sure how it applies to that.

Has anyone else spotted the mistake in the example for excess fares
calculation? The outboundary-to-outboundary one (somewhere to St
Albans) is wrong; it suggests a ticket from Boundary Zone 3 when the
correct ticket would be from Boundary Zone 5.

--quote--
Example:
A holder of a Zone R345 Period Travelcard wants to travel from
Purley to St. Albans.
Issue two excess tickets -
1. A point-to-point from the cheapest Boundary Zone 3 station
on line of route (Streatham) to cover travel across London
to Cricklewood (remember to set the cross-London marker).
Take the fare from Section C, and
2. a ticket from Boundary Zone 3 to St. Albans, taking the fare
from K3.
First check that this combined fare is cheaper than the
point-to-point fare from Streatham to St. Albans.
--end quote--

Neil

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Oter wrote:

Section K of the National Fares Manuals (page K1.2) explains how to
calculate prices for First ClassTravelcard season tickets for travel
within various combinations of zones including zones 1-6 and even zone
1 only.

So there *is* such a thing as a First Class 1-6 Travelcard, at least
for 7 day seasons and longer.

I have read it, and stand corrected. Given, however, that a First
Class ODTC is a TOC-specific (Thameslink) product - I think it's only
them - I'm not sure how it applies to that.

Has anyone else spotted the mistake in the example for excess fares
calculation? The outboundary-to-outboundary one (somewhere to St
Albans) is wrong; it suggests a ticket from Boundary Zone 3 when the
correct ticket would be from Boundary Zone 5.

--quote--
Example:
A holder of a Zone R345 Period Travelcard wants to travel from
Purley to St. Albans.
Issue two excess tickets -
1. A point-to-point from the cheapest Boundary Zone 3 station
on line of route (Streatham) to cover travel across London
to Cricklewood (remember to set the cross-London marker).
Take the fare from Section C, and
2. a ticket from Boundary Zone 3 to St. Albans, taking the fare
from K3.
First check that this combined fare is cheaper than the
point-to-point fare from Streatham to St. Albans.
--end quote--

There are actually two more mistakes in that example! Purley is in zone 6 so
another ticket would be needed Purley - South Croydon. Secondly I am not
sure where Streatham comes from as the zone 3-5 travelcard would be valid as
far as Herne Hill.

Peter Smyth

Neil Williams wrote:
Paul Oter wrote:

Section K of the National Fares Manuals (page K1.2) explains how to
calculate prices for First ClassTravelcard season tickets for travel
within various combinations of zones including zones 1-6 and even zone
1 only.

So there *is* such a thing as a First Class 1-6 Travelcard, at least
for 7 day seasons and longer.

I have read it, and stand corrected. Given, however, that a First
Class ODTC is a TOC-specific (Thameslink) product - I think it's only
them - I'm not sure how it applies to that.

In what sense is it TOC-specific? Day Travelcards from Cambridge to KX
aren't TOC-specific.

PaulO

I have read it, and stand corrected. Given, however, that a First
Class ODTC is a TOC-specific (Thameslink) product - I think it's only
them - I'm not sure how it applies to that.

In what sense is it TOC-specific? Day Travelcards from Cambridge to KX
aren't TOC-specific.


The Thameslink First Class one-day travelcard (I don't know if it is still
available)
used to be valid on Thameslink only (i.e. not Midland Mainline).
It was the same price as the standard class ODTC, which was valid on any
train.

Thameslink first class isn't really worth the bother, even for no extra
fare,
and you were unable to use the faster trains.

--
Peter

Paul Oter wrote:

In what sense is it TOC-specific? Day Travelcards from Cambridge to KX
aren't TOC-specific.

If it still exists (and it's not on the FCC site so maybe it doesn't),
I'm fairly sure it is/was routed THAMESLINK. That makes it
TOC-specific. Thameslink were the only TOC I am aware of that had such
a product (an outboundary First Class ODTC), and I have not heard of
another since.

Similarly, a Standard Class ODTC from Milton Keynes (like the one I
used today) can either be routed Any Permitted, or for less money
SILVERLINK ONLY. The former isn't TOC-specific (as far as BZ6), the
latter is.

Neil

In article ,
Jack Taylor wrote:
wrote:
I seem to remember reading somewhere, possibly on this group (but now
of course I can't find it), that within zones 1-6 there was no such
thing as first class, i.e. if you had a travelcard you could sit in
first class carriages on NR services up to the boundary of the zones
on your travelcard.

Not true.


I'm assuming this is no longer the case, as the announcer on my
regular morning train from Waterloo to Feltham is always very
emphatic that passengers sitting in the first class area must have a
valid first class ticket.

Was it ever the case, or have I completely made this up in my mind?

You're possibly getting confused with the fact that SWT have often used
stock with first class accommodation on the Windsor lines on services
advertised as standard class only and it *may* (at the discretion of the
guard - although always, in practise, on class 450s by means of a PIS
message) be declassified on some services.

And today on the Reading service arriving at about 12:45, they had a 4
car train instead of an 8 car train and they were just letting anyone
sit in FC without charging them extra because the train was so full.