wrote:
David Tran wrote:

Hi all

I have incorporated a London Tube Map into my website for plotting
routes around London's underground network, as people keep saying to me
TfL can do it better. Well, I don't see the TfL route planner showing
the routes on a map :-)

Seriously though, I do not have access to the timetable etc., so will
not be able to tell you the best times to travel, but if you want to see
all the alternatives to get from A to B, so in case a certain route is
not available (like the Waterloo and City line currently), then my
utility will help (and the visual aspect should be a bonus too).

You will be shown each route as a list of stations on the left hand
side, and also as a series of green dots along the traversed lines, with
the source and destination stations marked by map pins. If you hover
over each green dot, the name of the station will be displayed.

I am trying to add some points of interest along each route, but it is
an ongoing project. If you know of any, do let me know.

The URL is http://public.ok2life.com/tube/routes. As usual, all
feedbacks welcome (please use the MessageBoard provided, or mail me).

David


Have they reopened Shoreditch station, and the line from Whitechaple?

HTH Phil


You know Phil, I have not been to Shoreditch, but last time when someone
commented about that, I asked the guy sitting next to me at work, who
lives in Shoreditch, and he says there is a station there. I don't know
who to believe anymore !

David

David Tran wrote:
Have they reopened Shoreditch station, and the line from Whitechaple?

HTH Phil


You know Phil, I have not been to Shoreditch, but last time when someone
commented about that, I asked the guy sitting next to me at work, who
lives in Shoreditch, and he says there is a station there. I don't know
who to believe anymore !

There was a station there until a few weeks ago. Now it's closed down.
When the East London Line extension opens in 2010ish, there will be a
new Shoreditch station in a slightly different place.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

David Tran wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David Tran wrote:

How do you suggest I should solve this problem of providing useful
info to everybody ? the calculated routes sometimes get it wrong
because they do not know about certain stations which are quicker
to walk. I provide people with a facility to suggest route, but
this only works if people makes sensible suggestions. To go in and
zap every route I do not like is simply not the solution either.

You could provide a feedback facility linked to each suggested
route, a sort of "Click here if you think this route is
incorrect/stupid" facility that produces a message form. If
you get 3 or more saying that a route is wrong, remove it.
It's crude, but better than the current system.

OK, just to show the democracy works, I will remove this route if a
few more people verify for me that the route from Marylebone to
Turnham Green is rubbish. Not that I do not trust Richard, as he
has proved to be very knowledgeable. It is simply because I have
not been along this route myself and hesitate to touch it until I
get at least a second opinion.

The TfL Journey Planner is probably the most reliable second opinion.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:06:11 +0100, David Tran
wrote:

wrote:
David Tran wrote:

Hi all

I have incorporated a London Tube Map into my website for plotting
routes around London's underground network, as people keep saying to me
TfL can do it better. Well, I don't see the TfL route planner showing
the routes on a map :-)

Seriously though, I do not have access to the timetable etc., so will
not be able to tell you the best times to travel, but if you want to see
all the alternatives to get from A to B, so in case a certain route is
not available (like the Waterloo and City line currently), then my
utility will help (and the visual aspect should be a bonus too).

You will be shown each route as a list of stations on the left hand
side, and also as a series of green dots along the traversed lines, with
the source and destination stations marked by map pins. If you hover
over each green dot, the name of the station will be displayed.

I am trying to add some points of interest along each route, but it is
an ongoing project. If you know of any, do let me know.

The URL is http://public.ok2life.com/tube/routes. As usual, all
feedbacks welcome (please use the MessageBoard provided, or mail me).

David


Have they reopened Shoreditch station, and the line from Whitechaple?

HTH Phil


You know Phil, I have not been to Shoreditch, but last time when someone
commented about that, I asked the guy sitting next to me at work, who
lives in Shoreditch, and he says there is a station there. I don't know
who to believe anymore !

Perhaps you need to actually cross check with the TfL website?

The station is physically extant at present but the line to Whitechapel
has had its service withdrawn to allow construction of the East London
Line Extension. There is a replacement bus service - this is quite
clearly shown on the Tube Map. The station is closed and will never
reopen on its existing site.

There are a lot of variations to station openings and service patterns
at present with more planned e.g. Part of the Victoria Line closed this
weekend; Regents Park station is closed; Lancaster Gate is closed;
Waterloo & City Line is closed.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...me/planned.asp

I have no idea how "real time" you want your site to be but you will
have a big data management job on your hands if you want to be fully
accurate because the succession of engineering works will shut down an
awful lot of the network.

I can assure you that Richard is completely correct in his statement
that are few, if any, trains from Edgware Road (H&C) Station to Ealing
Broadway. I would also not wish on anyone the truly dismal and
threatening walk from Edgware Road Bakerloo to the H&C Station via the
subway network under the Marylebone flyover - ugh! There is the
additional issue that AFAIR the two stations are separate for fare
purposes and are not a valid interchange - therefore a non travelcard
holder will be financially penalised for attempting to interchange
between those two stations. Their ticket would be swallowed on exit at
Edgware Rd (Bloo) and they'd have to pay again at H&C station.

The far more logical routes are via Oxford Circus to the Central Line or
via Paddington to the Circle / District lines and then either to Notting
Hill Gate and then the Central Line or else a District or Circle to
Earls Court or Gloucester Road to change to a District to Ealing
Broadway. Earls Court is a level interchange while Gloucester Road is
awful M-F but a cross platform at weekends due to the platform usage at
Gloucester Road. Can your system cope with those subtleties?

The most basic rule for calculating journey times is 2 minutes average
time between stations and 5 minutes for a non zone 1 interchange and 10
minutes for a Zone 1 interchange. This assumes normal mobility and a
reasonable walking speed. There are obvious exceptions to this rule but
it works pretty well IME.

There are off peak journey times shown on timetables for each tube line
on the Journey Planner so you can see exactly how long a trip should
take. Peak trips obviously take substantially longer due to more trains
running and extra congestion.


--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

I can assure you that Richard is completely correct in his statement
that are few, if any, trains from Edgware Road (H&C) Station to
Ealing Broadway.

snip
The far more logical routes are via Oxford Circus to the Central
Line or via Paddington to the Circle / District lines and then
either to Notting Hill Gate and then the Central Line or else a
District or Circle to Earls Court or Gloucester Road to change to
a District to Ealing Broadway.

Er, the destination was actually Turnham Green. So the Central Line will
only work if you implement the 1922 (not 1928 as I wrote earlier )
extension proposal (Shepherd's Bush to Gunnersbury).

Earls Court is a level interchange while Gloucester Road
is awful M-F but a cross platform at weekends due to the platform
usage at Gloucester Road. Can your system cope with those
subtleties?

It used to be the case that westbound Districts used Platform 2 at
weekends, but I don't think that happens any more. They all used
Platform 1 in WTT129 (29 Sep 2002), the most recent that I have.

The most basic rule for calculating journey times is 2 minutes
average time between stations and 5 minutes for a non zone 1
interchange and 10 minutes for a Zone 1 interchange. This assumes
normal mobility and a reasonable walking speed. There are obvious
exceptions to this rule but it works pretty well IME.

There are off peak journey times shown on timetables for each tube
line on the Journey Planner so you can see exactly how long a trip
should take. Peak trips obviously take substantially longer due to
more trains running and extra congestion.

Obviously? More trains running ought to make journeys quicker. But it
would need better signalling and/or ATO and/or operating efficiency to
prevent the increased dwell times that make journey times longer. London
is still catching up with Paris in this respect, 20+ years later.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:33:23 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

I can assure you that Richard is completely correct in his statement
that are few, if any, trains from Edgware Road (H&C) Station to
Ealing Broadway.

snip
The far more logical routes are via Oxford Circus to the Central
Line or via Paddington to the Circle / District lines and then
either to Notting Hill Gate and then the Central Line or else a
District or Circle to Earls Court or Gloucester Road to change to
a District to Ealing Broadway.

Er, the destination was actually Turnham Green. So the Central Line will
only work if you implement the 1922 (not 1928 as I wrote earlier )
extension proposal (Shepherd's Bush to Gunnersbury).

Ooops - well that's me looking like an idiot. Still nothing stunningly
new there then.

Earls Court is a level interchange while Gloucester Road
is awful M-F but a cross platform at weekends due to the platform
usage at Gloucester Road. Can your system cope with those
subtleties?

It used to be the case that westbound Districts used Platform 2 at
weekends, but I don't think that happens any more. They all used
Platform 1 in WTT129 (29 Sep 2002), the most recent that I have.

Double oops.

The most basic rule for calculating journey times is 2 minutes
average time between stations and 5 minutes for a non zone 1
interchange and 10 minutes for a Zone 1 interchange. This assumes
normal mobility and a reasonable walking speed. There are obvious
exceptions to this rule but it works pretty well IME.

There are off peak journey times shown on timetables for each tube
line on the Journey Planner so you can see exactly how long a trip
should take. Peak trips obviously take substantially longer due to
more trains running and extra congestion.

Obviously? More trains running ought to make journeys quicker. But it
would need better signalling and/or ATO and/or operating efficiency to
prevent the increased dwell times that make journey times longer. London
is still catching up with Paris in this respect, 20+ years later.

I take the point but we all know that LU is not at that level of
sophistication yet. Lines like the sub surface ones tend to crawl in
the rush hours as there are so many flat junctions and without
absolutely on time running you will get tail backs.

The same is true for the Northern and Piccadilly Lines where Camden,
Kennington, Arnos Grove and Acton Town are all pinch points. If
everything is OK then the Vic runs fine and the Jubilee seems to have
improved. However there is still the issue of station congestion which
will increase - sometimes substantially - the time for interchange
between lines.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:33:23 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

There are off peak journey times shown on timetables for each tube
line on the Journey Planner so you can see exactly how long a trip
should take. Peak trips obviously take substantially longer due to
more trains running and extra congestion.

Obviously? More trains running ought to make journeys quicker.
But it would need better signalling and/or ATO and/or operating
efficiency to prevent the increased dwell times that make journey
times longer. London is still catching up with Paris in this
respect, 20+ years later.

I take the point but we all know that LU is not at that level of
sophistication yet. Lines like the sub surface ones tend to crawl
in the rush hours as there are so many flat junctions and without
absolutely on time running you will get tail backs.

The same is true for the Northern and Piccadilly Lines where Camden,
Kennington, Arnos Grove and Acton Town are all pinch points.

Acton Town is only a pinch point because of slack operating practices.
In each direction there are two platforms to handle 31 tph (24 tph
Piccadilly and 7 tph District in the peaks). In my experience, the
trains queue up on the approach to Acton Town because crew changes are
often too slow and signallers don't make full use of both platforms.
(I'm not familiar enough with the others you mentioned to comment on
them.)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:33:23 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:


There are off peak journey times shown on timetables for each tube
line on the Journey Planner so you can see exactly how long a trip
should take. Peak trips obviously take substantially longer due to
more trains running and extra congestion.


Obviously? More trains running ought to make journeys quicker.
But it would need better signalling and/or ATO and/or operating
efficiency to prevent the increased dwell times that make journey
times longer. London is still catching up with Paris in this
respect, 20+ years later.


I take the point but we all know that LU is not at that level of
sophistication yet. Lines like the sub surface ones tend to crawl
in the rush hours as there are so many flat junctions and without
absolutely on time running you will get tail backs.

The same is true for the Northern and Piccadilly Lines where Camden,
Kennington, Arnos Grove and Acton Town are all pinch points.


Acton Town is only a pinch point because of slack operating practices.
In each direction there are two platforms to handle 31 tph (24 tph
Piccadilly and 7 tph District in the peaks). In my experience, the
trains queue up on the approach to Acton Town because crew changes are
often too slow and signallers don't make full use of both platforms.
(I'm not familiar enough with the others you mentioned to comment on them.)


Hi Gents

Sorry been away to the South coast for the weekend to escape the heat
(not much success though).

I have been tempted to look up the TfL website to cross reference a few
times, but am not sure if their information is in the public domain or
not (by that I mean I can actually use it on my site without violating
some kind of copyrights).

I was hoping maybe the site could be self maintaining, but from the
sound of the feedback I get, that is pretty unlikely to happen as people
are more interested in using it and pointing out the problems rather
than contributing to it. It is fair I guess, as a tube timetable is a
non trivial thing to maintain, like Paul pointed out. Ah well, never
mind, with this kind of weather, only fools and horses work. I am off
down the south coast again :-)

Thanks for your contribution.

David