On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:


Hi,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm

Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more
pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new
trains in fabric was made.

Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid
plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it
briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be
embedded in the fabric.....

No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic
seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim
O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric
seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from
other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the
other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine
sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems
with such seats have air conditioning.

You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure
you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way
between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat.

One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have
reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without
enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock
for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have
the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1],
Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting
remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the
new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on /
against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions
inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create
issues and I hope something more practical emerges.

[1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be
shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Mizter T wrote:
Bizarrely, on some London Central buses on the top-deck the back three
rows (i.e. the rear-most forward facing, the accompanying backward
facing and then the next forward facing rows) are plastic seats.

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other
liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate
on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is
so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both!

ISTR that some have stuck on fabric and, IME, aren't that uncomfortable
even without any real padding. Probably only good for a 10-20 minute
journey though.

Jonathan

Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other
liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate
on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is
so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both!

Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't
have any plastic seats.

Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with
soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping
everywhere...?

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
Bizarrely, on some London Central buses on the top-deck the back three
rows (i.e. the rear-most forward facing, the accompanying backward
facing and then the next forward facing rows) are plastic seats.

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other
liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate
on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is
so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both!

ISTR that some have stuck on fabric and, IME, aren't that uncomfortable
even without any real padding. Probably only good for a 10-20 minute
journey though.



And I am sure I am not the only person ever to have sat down heavily on
one of these disguised plastic seats and bruised myself.

MIG wrote:
And I am sure I am not the only person ever to have sat down heavily on
one of these disguised plastic seats and bruised myself.

The bits of fabric are only on the base and the back, so there's no way
you'll not notice the fact the rest is a solid grey/blue lump of
plastic!

Jonathan

Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also
travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus
daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and
unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for
the passengers !

Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during
rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't
recall being on any train with those where people have not always been
seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others
aside to be able to flip them down...

....and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but
all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed
baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched
perch type seats years ago I seem to recall.

C


On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:14:47 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:


Hi,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm

Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more
pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new
trains in fabric was made.

Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid
plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it
briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be
embedded in the fabric.....

No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic
seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim
O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric
seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from
other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the
other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine
sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems
with such seats have air conditioning.

You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure
you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way
between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat.

One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have
reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without
enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock
for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have
the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1],
Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting
remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the
new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on /
against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions
inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create
issues and I hope something more practical emerges.

[1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be
shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable.

Adrian wrote:

Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other
liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate
on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is
so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both!

Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't
have any plastic seats.

Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with
soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping
everywhere...?

I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few
London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three
rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't
restrict themselves to that part of the bus.

I think it shall remain a mystery.

Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or
other liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or
urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or,
perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in
the depot. Or, both!

Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't
have any plastic seats.

Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on
with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping
everywhere...?

I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few
London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three
rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't
restrict themselves to that part of the bus.

I was thinking more of the drain holes in the floor...

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:59:59 +0100, Craig wrote:

[big snip]

Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also
travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus
daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and
unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for
the passengers !

The bouncy ride is far more to do with track quality and the age of the
rolling stock. The trains are nearly 40 years old which is the end of
their design life. Given that everything on the Victoria Line is nearly
40 years old it's a minor miracle it still runs every day.

The bit of track on the northbound between Finsbury Park and Seven
Sisters is noticeably quieter and smoother of late - I assume this is
where the weekend works are happening.

I would still prefer to have a comfy seat cushion on rebuilt track than
an orthopaedic bed disguised as a train.

Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during
rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't
recall being on any train with those where people have not always been
seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others
aside to be able to flip them down...

I think the tip up seats are a compromise to deal with making a
vestibule area available for those in wheelchairs or with buggies. The
tube is clearly not an ideal environment for such travellers at present
but new trains have to be DDA compliant whether we like it or not. Given
the generally very small numbers of disabled travellers it is a sensible
measure to provide seats - after all Londoners are used to them.

There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip up
seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO.

...and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but
all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed
baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched
perch type seats years ago I seem to recall.

I hate perch seats in areas beside doors. They are neither one thing nor
the other. The upholstered perches at car ends are not a bad idea but
tend to be too high. The poster who commented that anyone who positions
themselves on a perch seat has to both contort their head and splay
their legs had it spot on - I had to do that on a Picc Train the other
morning and it was very uncomfortable.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Adrian wrote:

Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or
other liquids) to drain out.

Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or
urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or,
perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in
the depot. Or, both!

Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't
have any plastic seats.

Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on
with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping
everywhere...?

I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few
London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three
rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't
restrict themselves to that part of the bus.

I was thinking more of the drain holes in the floor...

Aha, now I understand your comments! Yes, IMO the drian holes are a
sensible addtion to bus design - for the reason you state; for draining
away any spilt liquid courtesy of an uncourteous passenger; and to
drain away excess water used when cleaning/mopping the floor. I reckon
the last reason is why they've appeared.