kytelly wrote:
Tom Robinson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:32:27 +0100, Tom Robinson
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:24:52 +0100, "Aosmosis"
wrote:

How reliable is the Richmond branch of the NNL and district line?

I was waiting at Turnham green for 25 mins for a richmond train.


What ever happened to the proposal too run a branch from the central
line to Richmond and discontinue the district service? Was it all
connected to Crossrail going ahead?

There was a proposal in the 1920's for a Central Line extension from
Shepherd's Bush to Gunnersbury, and there was even an Underground map
poster showing it as a dotted line. There's one in the Acton Depot of
London's Transport Museum.

The only recent proposal of this sort was the "Corridor 6" option for
Crossrail, involving a tunnel from the GMWL at Wormwood Scrubs to just
west of Turnham Green, then via Gunnersbury and Richmond to Kingston,
which would have meant closing the District's service to Richmond. That
idea was dropped in 2004 in favour of the current plan to run Crossrail
to Maidenhead.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Next time get the bus (or walk) to Gunnersbury, and get the
District/NLL from there. The NLL has a timetable, so at least you can
plan for that, even though they are sometimes late.

Trains in the morning rush seem to always be 2-3 minutes late and
severe problems are rare; the short constant delays seem to be less of
a problem in the evening rush but more substantial delays (15 mins or
more) are more common. Punctuality does seem to have improved sharply
this year compared to last where it was rare that a train was not 5-7
mins late.

The staff and boards are best ignored, incidentally: the system that
reports the delay digitally appears to have been programmed as part of
a school project and the staff regularly just lie. I speak from many
months' experience. Only 2 weeks ago at Acton Central, the man at the
ticket counter told me that a train had just left Gunnersbury - a
colleague at that station assured me otherwise: the magic of mobile
phones, eh?

Incidentally, on the matter of the GCSE train arrival information
system: I was wondering how National Rail compile punctuality stats? Do
they use the same data that we see on the screens in the stations or do
they capture it separately? I ask as it is very common (as in
more-often-than-not common) that a train delayed by more than 5 mins
will simply be reported as being "On Time" at my station on the screen.

wrote:
Incidentally, on the matter of the GCSE train arrival information
system: I was wondering how National Rail compile punctuality stats? Do
they use the same data that we see on the screens in the stations or do
they capture it separately? I ask as it is very common (as in
more-often-than-not common) that a train delayed by more than 5 mins
will simply be reported as being "On Time" at my station on the screen.

Not sure of the direct answer to your question, but I've noticed on
South Eastern trains that when the train is later than the magical four
minutes, the automated announcements always reflect this. So, for
example, if the 11.25 arrives at 11.28, the announcement will be "The
train at Platform 4 is the 11.25 to...", if it arrives at 11.30 the
announcement will be "The train at Platform 4 is the delayed 11.25
to...".

And who decided that +/- 4 minutes means "on time", anyway? Can't see
the Swiss accepting that...

Patrick

Not sure of the direct answer to your question, but I've noticed on
South Eastern trains that when the train is later than the magical four
minutes, the automated announcements always reflect this. So, for
example, if the 11.25 arrives at 11.28, the announcement will be "The
train at Platform 4 is the 11.25 to...", if it arrives at 11.30 the
announcement will be "The train at Platform 4 is the delayed 11.25
to...".

And who decided that +/- 4 minutes means "on time", anyway? Can't see
the Swiss accepting that...

Patrick

I've always been troubled by the whole %age On Time concept both for
the reason you mention and the concept of using trains rather than
passengers as being On Time.

What I mean to say is that if you take - say - the NLL and look at the
delays. Last year the line reported punctuality of 95 or 96% - assuming
that this was based on the real running times of the trains and based
on my personal experiences, it must have meant that almost all the
off-peak trains were running on time. But these often run 10% full (and
those passengers are less likely to be daily users) while the rush hour
trains are packed.

Therefore, a much larger %age than 4% or 5% were delayed on the line.
This explains the mismatch between what - on the face of it - appears
to be a good figure and the experiences of regular passengers you hear
from, when discussing the line.

wrote:
wrote:
Incidentally, on the matter of the GCSE train arrival information
system: I was wondering how National Rail compile punctuality stats? Do
they use the same data that we see on the screens in the stations or do
they capture it separately? I ask as it is very common (as in
more-often-than-not common) that a train delayed by more than 5 mins
will simply be reported as being "On Time" at my station on the screen.

Not sure of the direct answer to your question, but I've noticed on
South Eastern trains that when the train is later than the magical four
minutes, the automated announcements always reflect this. So, for
example, if the 11.25 arrives at 11.28, the announcement will be "The
train at Platform 4 is the 11.25 to...", if it arrives at 11.30 the
announcement will be "The train at Platform 4 is the delayed 11.25
to...".

And who decided that +/- 4 minutes means "on time", anyway? Can't see
the Swiss accepting that...



On South Eastern, they do do some adjustments, but they can't handle
which train is going first on the "first train to" board. Eg, if you
stand at somewhere like Hither Green or Lewisham, where trains come
from different directions, if, say, the 1130 is now expected at 1145,
it will say that the first train to Charing Cross is expected at
platform x at 1145. It won't mention that the (on time) 1135 to
Charing Cross from platform y is actually going to be the first.

On Silverlink, which runs the NLL, as far as I am aware, the displays
never show anything except the scheduled times, with no adjustments or
variations due to actual events.

I have mentioned before that when there was major disruption for a few
days due to flooding, all the displays at Queens Park were left
switched on and displayed all the normal train times, none of which
were running.

You also tend to see that the next train is expected in 18 minutes,
just as the previous one turns up 2 minutes late.

In article .com,
MIG wrote:
On Silverlink, which runs the NLL, as far as I am aware, the displays
never show anything except the scheduled times, with no adjustments or
variations due to actual events.

This is not true: at Camden Town, Leytonstone High Road and Upper Holloway
at least, the screens show the expected time - when the screens are working.

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.

Aosmosis wrote:
How reliable is the Richmond branch of the NNL and district line?

I think almost from the moment your question was rendered it's been
pumping awful!
--
gordon

Two other questions for fellow sufferers and experts...

1) Does anyone know why there is such inflexibility about scheduling
trains to the richmond branch?

Problems and delays occur pretty frequently, and it seems that LUL are
unable to do anything about maintaining a good rotation of trains to
the different destinations. A typical case is that you can be waiting
at Earls Court for a Richmond train and see Wimbledon, Parsons Green,
Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Ealing Broadway, Ealing Broadway and then
finally a Richmond train.

Surely it would be much better to admit timetables are messed up and
reschedule trains at Earls Court to maintain a regular flow of trains
to all 3 branches?

2) Does anyone know how to access the train information system via the
web?

I noticed that the platform assistants at Earls Court have new PDAs
that seem to show train position information. Anyone know how to see
this from outside LUL? It would be really handy to tell when a richmond
train is coming when I am planning to leave work for the day.

Cheers,

Harry
( hjb _at_ null _dot_ net )

wrote:
Aosmosis wrote:
How reliable is the Richmond branch of the NNL and district line?

I think almost from the moment your question was rendered it's been
pumping awful!
--
gordon

NewsPosting wrote:

(snip)

2) Does anyone know how to access the train information system via the
web?

I noticed that the platform assistants at Earls Court have new PDAs
that seem to show train position information. Anyone know how to see
this from outside LUL? It would be really handy to tell when a richmond
train is coming when I am planning to leave work for the day.


The Underground ETA boards don't currently cover the District line, so
there is no way of getting this information. Obviously at Earls Court
you won't get an ETA display either, you just get the destination of
the next train (or the train at the platform) - information about other
services comes at the whim of the station staff annoucing it over the
PA system.

The other suggestion I have is getting an Ealing Broadway train,
getting off at Chiswick Park and walk the half mile down to Gunnersbury
station in the hope that a North London Line train will turn up. Given
that at Earls Court you often have no idea when the next Richmond train
is due doing this would be a bit of a gamble, as you might well miss
the Richmond District train whilst you're walking between stations.

Aosmosis wrote:
How reliable is the Richmond branch of the NNL and district line?

My limited experience of a week's use of the NLL (and observation of it
at Euston) suggested that reliability was a sick joke. A lot of it was
down to train failures; they'd do well to talk to Merseyrail to see how
they manage to avoid this being as much of an issue.

The NLL is a third-world disgrace to a capital city.

Neil