Paul Corfield wrote:

On 30 Jul 2006 14:50:11 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:

If I didn't know better I would suspect that they were having a break
and laughing up their sleeves at the people stuck outside. No chance
of any of them coming outside in the rain to explain.

I don't think that is a particularly fair comment but then you did say
you were in Evening Standard mode.

Whatever the safety rules are right now, this is not an acceptable
solution to "overcrowding" and alternatives should be sought.

Would you like to advise what alternatives you would like to see
implemented other than allowing people to pour into a station that
cannot cope with any more people at certain times?

It should be borne in mind that even the very slightest of delays on one
line at peak times can cause Oxford Circus (and other places) to become
dangerously overcrowded very, very quickly. In such circumstances there
is no benefit whatsoever in allowing yet more people to enter and thus
compound the crush.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!


As a passenger I absolutely agree with this - I'm not keen on being
involved in a subterranean crush, nor do I want it happening to anyone
else.

I think this talk of relative risks really is misguided when it comes
to this particular issue. This is not health and safety paranoia, just
common-sense crowd control.

As has been stated elsewhere, a road accident involving say two people
is preferable to a disaster in an underground station involving
hundreds. I don't want either, but risk management would suggest one is
a less horrendous option than the other.

For those who're able bodied, I really wouldurge them not to stand
around brewing because they can't get into the station but instead
utilise shank's pony and go elsewhere.

If offices had to turn off all computers and lights when shut, that
would make a massive difference.

Absolutely - standing at the bottom of One Canada Square at 11pm on
Friday night - it's quite shocking to see so many lights still on.
--
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On 31 Jul 2006 11:08:15 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

It should be borne in mind that even the very slightest of delays on one
line at peak times can cause Oxford Circus (and other places) to become
dangerously overcrowded very, very quickly. In such circumstances there
is no benefit whatsoever in allowing yet more people to enter and thus
compound the crush.

As a passenger I absolutely agree with this - I'm not keen on being
involved in a subterranean crush, nor do I want it happening to anyone
else.

I think this talk of relative risks really is misguided when it comes
to this particular issue. This is not health and safety paranoia, just
common-sense crowd control.

Yes - having been caught in one or two quite bad crush situations on a
Tube platform - including Oxo - I would not recommend it. Watching
people trying to get off a packed train into a solid mass of people
while the mass tries to get on the train is not pleasant. It only takes
the slightest of slips, pushes or a word said in error and you have a
real problem on your hands.

For those who're able bodied, I really wouldurge them not to stand
around brewing because they can't get into the station but instead
utilise shank's pony and go elsewhere.

I would agree with this too. Not from a "pushing the problem elsewhere"
viewpoint but simply that I find the thing to do when faced with a
problem like this is simply to keep moving. It is the lack of movement
that causes immense frustration. I know it isn't always possible but I
do try to have a wide range of ways of getting somewhere stored away in
my head to allow me to get round a problem on a line. Most people only
have their regular A to B route in their head and cannot cope with being
deflected off course. Only once have I been completely stuck and then
only for about 30 minutes but they were somewhat exceptional
circumstances - not 7/7 btw.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Mizter T wrote:
For those who're able bodied, I really wouldurge them not to stand
around brewing because they can't get into the station but instead
utilise shank's pony and go elsewhere.

If the station is closed and evacuated, I can see a possible problem
because a lot of people WILL pile out. However, there's bound to be a
good reason for getting everyone out and I'm sure most vehicles will
react accordingly (it's mainly buses and taxis and they aren't going to
deliberately drive into anyone).

Closing the doors when the station is full won't be a major issue.
People will either stay, or say 'sod this' and move on to another
station, get a bus, walk or go shopping and come back. Tourists aren't
stupid, so they're not going to end up in the road waiting to go into
the station that is closed (especially if they don't know when it might
reopen). It will definitely help those inside the station that won't be
crushed because nobody is coming in behind them.

Jonathan

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
For those who're able bodied, I really wouldurge them not to stand
around brewing because they can't get into the station but instead
utilise shank's pony and go elsewhere.

If the station is closed and evacuated, I can see a possible problem
because a lot of people WILL pile out. However, there's bound to be a
good reason for getting everyone out and I'm sure most vehicles will
react accordingly (it's mainly buses and taxis and they aren't going to
deliberately drive into anyone).

Closing the doors when the station is full won't be a major issue.
People will either stay, or say 'sod this' and move on to another
station, get a bus, walk or go shopping and come back. Tourists aren't
stupid, so they're not going to end up in the road waiting to go into
the station that is closed (especially if they don't know when it might
reopen). It will definitely help those inside the station that won't be
crushed because nobody is coming in behind them.


Unfortunately, the ultimate logic of all this is that the only way to
make the Underground completely safe is to close it down permanently.
Everyone who wants to travel in London will then "disperse safely".

The Underground is there because it offers something worthwhile to
London, and allows travel in a way that is generally much safer than
the alternatives.

If it is evident that what is supposedly an "emergency" procedure is
being carried out several times a day every day at a particular
station, surely this is an indication that what is really needed is, in
fact, a routine procedure, rather than a drastic emergency one?

So there is a problem with Oxford Circus such that it frequently
becomes unsafe. It's implied that if I want the station to be
available to me, then that means I want there to be a terrible
accident. Actually, I want a third alternative: for those in control
to take an interest in making the station both safe and usable, instead
of just accepting that it isn't and shutting me out.

Other things are considered to be worth spending time and resources on,
so why isn't this? At the moment it looks like no one gives a sh*t as
long as they can keep on getting away with closing the station.

Also, it isn't the whole station that's unsafe at any time, it's
usually just one of the six platforms. I can't see why minor works
couldn't be done to allow access to a particular platform to be
restricted, at a point where people could be directed elsewhere, eg
along another platform and back to an exit or choice of routes.

The total numbers trying to get to that platform would be about one
sixth of the numbers currently shut out in the rain, and there would
probably be less gates to staff. Five sixths of the people currently
shut out and delayed would be able to travel unhindered. I think it's
worth considering.