Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

This is totally Dagenham (several stops beyond Barking) is if not
Upminster. It's also Ken reverting to New Labour control freakery to a
degree I didn't believe him capable of. He *has* changed since he was
first elected!

It would decimate cycling in London, not to mention making life
impossible for cyclists like me who bring their bikes in on the train
from Cambridge. We certainly won't be doing anything so dotty in
Cambridge because we actually know we have to promote sustainable
transport. The alternative is total gridlock.

Well said, Colin. It would also be entirely impractical unless it were a
national implementation. For example, how would they be able to regulate
those of us who (like yourself) take a bike on the train into London but
then cycle from one terminus to another before heading out of London to our
destination (in my case, in from Metroland and out of King's Cross to
Peterborough - perhaps Ken would prefer me to clog up the Metropolitan line
by taking my bike right through to KX, in order to avoid the need to license
it?).

Jack Taylor wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

This is totally Dagenham (several stops beyond Barking) is if not
Upminster. It's also Ken reverting to New Labour control freakery to a
degree I didn't believe him capable of. He *has* changed since he was
first elected!

It would decimate cycling in London, not to mention making life
impossible for cyclists like me who bring their bikes in on the train
from Cambridge. We certainly won't be doing anything so dotty in
Cambridge because we actually know we have to promote sustainable
transport. The alternative is total gridlock.

Well said, Colin. It would also be entirely impractical unless it were a
national implementation. For example, how would they be able to regulate
those of us who (like yourself) take a bike on the train into London but
then cycle from one terminus to another before heading out of London to our
destination (in my case, in from Metroland and out of King's Cross to
Peterborough - perhaps Ken would prefer me to clog up the Metropolitan line
by taking my bike right through to KX, in order to avoid the need to license
it?).

It would be totally impractical to enforce, just how many bicycles are
there in the London area that would be affected? Anyone can buy a
bicycle from anywhere without need to register it. It would require and
Act of Parliament to make it legal and such a thing would never be
passed.

Neill

In article . com,
(Neillw001) wrote:

Jack Taylor wrote:

[Ken's bike lunacy]

It would be totally impractical to enforce, just how many bicycles
are there in the London area that would be affected? Anyone can buy a
bicycle from anywhere without need to register it. It would require
and Act of Parliament to make it legal and such a thing would never be
passed.

Ken is talking of a Private Bill, something London has every year. But
it could well fall foul of the Parliamentary procedures because of its
effect on people outside London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article . com,
(Neillw001) wrote:

Jack Taylor wrote:

[Ken's bike lunacy]

It would be totally impractical to enforce, just how many bicycles
are there in the London area that would be affected? Anyone can buy a
bicycle from anywhere without need to register it. It would require
and Act of Parliament to make it legal and such a thing would never be
passed.

Ken is talking of a Private Bill, something London has every year. But
it could well fall foul of the Parliamentary procedures because of its
effect on people outside London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin, I understand what you say about impracticality of "local"
legally-enforced bike registration; i.e. it would have to be national
or nothing.

But, does Cambridge University not still have a mandatory College
resistration system for students' bicycles? I remember my number -
Q283, from all those years ago! I'm not sure what the sanction was for
failing to register and/or display one's number.

Moreover, all resident Members of the University were required to
obtain the Motor Proctor's written consent before having motor vehicle
in the City. I wonder whether that still applies.?

Marc.

wrote in message
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article . com,
(Neillw001) wrote:

Jack Taylor wrote:

[Ken's bike lunacy]

It would be totally impractical to enforce, just how many bicycles
are there in the London area that would be affected? Anyone can buy
a bicycle from anywhere without need to register it. It would
require an Act of Parliament to make it legal and such a thing
would never be passed.

Why. If there was a political will, it would happen. I don't know why it
wasn't enacted several decades ago: any vehicle on the road needs to obey
the Highway Code and needs to be identifiable if it fails to do so.


Ken is talking of a Private Bill, something London has every year.
But it could well fall foul of the Parliamentary procedures because
of its effect on people outside London.

Colin, I understand what you say about impracticality of "local"
legally-enforced bike registration; i.e. it would have to be national
or nothing.


As a cyclist (as well as a car driver) I'd wholeheartedly support a national
bicycle registration scheme with a requirement to display
clearly-identifiable number plates front and back that could be read by
police or traffic-light cameras. It's rare to see cars go through red
traffic lights (I see maybe one every couple of months) whereas almost every
day I see cyclists ride straight through lights as if they don't apply to
cyclists - and this is at any time in the phase of the lights, not just at
the very start or end of the red phase. Presumably the thought of being
identified and nicked is a great deterrent for car drivers and the absence
of this for cyclists makes them think they can get away with it... which
they can :-( Likewise for cyclists who drive full-tilt at zebra crossings
with loads of people on, scattering them in their wake - I saw this in
Oxford while I was out cycling: a nutter cyclist overtook me as I was
slowing down for the zebra and rode straight at a group of tourists on the
crossing, scattering them in panic. Luckily a police car was passing and
pulled the cyclist over, but had the police not witnessed it, there was no
registration number that I could have reported to the police.

I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't count
towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this change too.

Martin Underwood wrote:

I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't
count towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this
change too.

So how would that apply to those of us who don't have, never have had and
never intend to have a full driving licence?

Jack Taylor wrote in message
:

Martin Underwood wrote:

I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't
count towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this
change too.

So how would that apply to those of us who don't have, never have had
and never intend to have a full driving licence?

If you haven't got a driving licence, you can't get points on it - although
maybe the law might be framed such that if you subsequently got a driving
licence within the time that the points would have appeared on a licence (if
you'd had one), the licence would be issued with those points already
applied to it ;-)

Maybe one day, if bike number-plates ever become law, the next discussion
might be about requiring a driving licence to ride a bike on the road, with
points applied to it for offences committed either while riding a bike or
driving a car. But let's overcome one hurdle at a time!

It pains me to see cyclists get away with committing offences for which car
drivers would be punished, and the comparatively small number of bad
cyclists blackening the name of all other cyclists (like me) who abide by
the same rules and "drive" to the same standard when cycling as when
driving - including stopping at every red traffic light and occupied zebra
crossing, and not overtaking cars on the left in a queue of traffic
especially approaching a left turn.

Martin Underwood wrote:
Why. If there was a political will, it would happen. I don't know why it
wasn't enacted several decades ago: any vehicle on the road needs to obey
the Highway Code and needs to be identifiable if it fails to do so.

Bicycles arn't road vehicles. They just happened to be used on the road
by
most owners. YOu can ride them in parks, in fields , up hills ,
wherever its allowed.
In fact its debatable whether they are vehicles at all given they don't
have engines.
If you say they are then perhaps we should call push scooters and
skateboards
vehicles too? No? Why not?

As a cyclist (as well as a car driver) I'd wholeheartedly support a national
bicycle registration scheme with a requirement to display
clearly-identifiable number plates front and back that could be read by
police or traffic-light cameras. It's rare to see cars go through red

I think you might find yourself in the minority there. You can just
imagine
some bored plod or traffic warden giving some poor cyclist a ticket for
some minor infraction just as happens with cars today. Can't see
cycling
lasting long if that happens.

they can :-( Likewise for cyclists who drive full-tilt at zebra crossings
with loads of people on, scattering them in their wake - I saw this in

And you think license plates would stop this? You think these people
would
even bother to register? Whats to stop people who don't? How will the
police
catch them if they head off down an alleyway, call in the helicopter?
Be realistic. Theres a simple way of dealing with idiots like that
because I've
done it. I was crossing a pedestrian crossing about 6 months back on a
green man
and saw a courier cyclist heading across my path but I just carried on
walking whereas
she presumably expected me to stop. I made sure she clipped me and she

was sent flying badly grazing her arms. Tough.

I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't count
towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this change too.

Don't be an ass. A lot of people cycle because they don't drive.

B2003

Boltar wrote in message
:

Martin Underwood wrote:
Why. If there was a political will, it would happen. I don't know
why it wasn't enacted several decades ago: any vehicle on the road
needs to obey the Highway Code and needs to be identifiable if it
fails to do so.

As a cyclist (as well as a car driver) I'd wholeheartedly support a
national bicycle registration scheme with a requirement to display
clearly-identifiable number plates front and back that could be read
by police or traffic-light cameras. It's rare to see cars go through
red

I think you might find yourself in the minority there. You can just
imagine
some bored plod or traffic warden giving some poor cyclist a ticket
for some minor infraction just as happens with cars today. Can't see
cycling
lasting long if that happens.

Oh I'm used to being in the minority.


they can :-( Likewise for cyclists who drive full-tilt at zebra
crossings with loads of people on, scattering them in their wake - I
saw this in

And you think license plates would stop this? You think these people
would
even bother to register? Whats to stop people who don't? How will the
police
catch them if they head off down an alleyway, call in the helicopter?
Be realistic. Theres a simple way of dealing with idiots like that
because I've
done it. I was crossing a pedestrian crossing about 6 months back on a
green man
and saw a courier cyclist heading across my path but I just carried on
walking whereas
she presumably expected me to stop. I made sure she clipped me and
she

was sent flying badly grazing her arms. Tough.

I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't
count towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this
change too.

Don't be an ass. A lot of people cycle because they don't drive.

B2003

Boltar wrote in message
:

Martin Underwood wrote:
Why. If there was a political will, it would happen. I don't know
why it wasn't enacted several decades ago: any vehicle on the road
needs to obey the Highway Code and needs to be identifiable if it
fails to do so.

Bicycles arn't road vehicles. They just happened to be used on the
road by
most owners. YOu can ride them in parks, in fields , up hills ,
wherever its allowed.
In fact its debatable whether they are vehicles at all given they
don't have engines.
If you say they are then perhaps we should call push scooters and
skateboards
vehicles too? No? Why not?

As soon as a vehicle uses the road, it becomes a road vehicle for the time
that it is on the road.

As a cyclist (as well as a car driver) I'd wholeheartedly support a
national bicycle registration scheme with a requirement to display
clearly-identifiable number plates front and back that could be read
by police or traffic-light cameras. It's rare to see cars go through
red

I think you might find yourself in the minority there. You can just
imagine
some bored plod or traffic warden giving some poor cyclist a ticket
for some minor infraction just as happens with cars today. Can't see
cycling lasting long if that happens.

Oh I'm used to being in the minority - happens all the time. Doesn't make my
views any less valid!

And why should a cyclist escape punishment for "a minor infraction" when a
motorist gets penalised for that same "minor infraction"?


they can :-( Likewise for cyclists who drive full-tilt at zebra
crossings with loads of people on, scattering them in their wake - I
saw this in

And you think license plates would stop this? You think these people
would
even bother to register? Whats to stop people who don't? How will the
police
catch them if they head off down an alleyway, call in the helicopter?
Be realistic. Theres a simple way of dealing with idiots like that
because I've
done it. I was crossing a pedestrian crossing about 6 months back on a
green man
and saw a courier cyclist heading across my path but I just carried on
walking whereas
she presumably expected me to stop. I made sure she clipped me and
she

was sent flying badly grazing her arms. Tough.

I witnessed a cyclist ride at a woman pushing a pram across a zebra crossing
when I was at university in Bristol (Bristolians may know Blackboy Hill, a
long road on a downward gradient, crossed by zebra crossings every so
often). Without lessening his speed, he swerved to avoid the pram and
clipped the central refuge bollard, and went flying. As he got up, he was
swearing at the woman for "daring" to cross on a zebra crossing. At one
point I thought I'd have to intervene because he looked as if he was going
to hit her, but my mate, a great big burly guy, "had a word with him" and he
lost interest in this!


I believe that road traffic offences committed while cycling don't
count towards penalty points on a car licence: I'd like to see this
change too.

Don't be an ass. A lot of people cycle because they don't drive.

And they shouldn't have points on their non-existent licence, although such
points should be held in reserve in case the person gets a licence later
(within the validity period of the points). But if they *do* have a licence,
cycling offences (on the road) should constitue endorsable points on it.