I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a cyclists
presence.

I used to think the cyclist had a bit of a raw deal, now I'm not so sure.

What's really getting to me recently is the incredibly self righteous
prowling our pavements. I had a run in with one last night who came hurtling
toward a group waiting at a bus stop. Accusing one man of "trying to be
macho" for not getting out of his way, he then offered his opinions on "all
of us driving our cars and polluting the air" in spite of the fact that we
were obviously waiting for a bus. Not letting this pass without comment,
myself and another would be bus passenger were offered the opportunity for
mortal combat with this shaven headed screamer. He would never understand
why I declined, in spite of being equally fit and about 30% larger.

The place of course was none other than Britain's favourite street,
Streatham High Road.

What worries me most about this is that it's reached the point that this is
considered normal behaviour and a whole generation have come to understand
that no-one wants to enforce the law, or even that such laws exist in the
first place.

In the absence of law, perhaps our Mayor should be tackling this as a vermin
issue, he's quite upstanding when it comes to pidgeons I hear.

Jeff Mowatt

I also get very irritated and the continual floating of traffic lights. I
ride to the station at 5am on some mornings but still wait for the traffic
lights to change to green before proceeding even though most times there is
no traffic on the roads. I'm sure a cyclist 'jumping' a red light would soon
have something to say to the, for once innocent, Volvo driver! I wonder if
the police might turn a blind eye if I were to 'jump' a red light in my car?
(No responses please!). As for the pavements, the preserve of the
pedestrian, what is up with grown adults (who should know far better) who
insist on riding on the pavement without a by or leave for the people who
are walking on it? I refuse to get out of their way (so long as they ain't
hurtling towards me at great speeds of course. I aint THAT stupid). Time to
dismount my soap box now!
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates
many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a
piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is
the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a
cyclists
presence.

As a cyclist and as a driver, I do everything in by power to prevent the
conflict between a cyclist going straight in and a driver turning left,
because I'm never sure who has priority over whom but the cyclist would
come
off worst:

- as a cyclist I will always look for a driver's left-turn indicator if
I'm
alongside him approaching a left turn: if he indicates, I will hang back
instead of being alongside him

- as a driver, I will move close to the kerb if I see a cyclist in my
rear-view or door mirror and I want to turn left, forcing him to overtake
on
the right as traffic should do - although I believe the Highway Code has
something to say about overtaking traffic that is turning at a junction


In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best
place for a cyclist to be - he's less of a hazard to drivers who may be
doing three times his speed. On a crowded city street, it's a differnt
matter - few pedestrians (except me) look out for other pedestrians, never
mind cyclists - and cars and cyclists are likely to be going at much more
similar speeds so cyclists are less of a hazard to drivers.

I fell foul of an irate woman when I was out cycling the other month. I
was
riding on a fast A road and, being tired as I approached the top of a hill
at a mere 10 mph, I pulled off the road onto a pavement at a convenient
dropped kerb - I judged that it was safer to stop and dismount away from
the
traffic. I'd ridden about 2 yards onto the pavement before stopping. The
woman was about 100 yards away and there were no other people around. As
she
approached while I was getting my breath back she gave me a real
ear-bashing
for "riding on the pavement".

I also get very irritated and the continual floating of traffic lights. I
ride to the station at 5am on some mornings but still wait for the traffic
lights to change to green before proceeding even though most times there is
no traffic on the roads. I'm sure a cyclist 'jumping' a red light would soon
have something to say to the, for once innocent, Volvo driver! I wonder if
the police might turn a blind eye if I were to 'jump' a red light in my car?
(No responses please!). As for the pavements, the preserve of the
pedestrian, what is up with grown adults (who should know far better) who
insist on riding on the pavement without a by or leave for the people who
are walking on it? I refuse to get out of their way (so long as they ain't
hurtling towards me at great speeds of course. I aint THAT stupid). Time to
dismount my soap box now!
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

Certainly there are quite a few that break the rules and it irritates
many
including myself. Sometimes I've had good reason to offer a driver a
piece
of my mind, if I managed to catch up of course. The usual scenario is
the
overtaking and left turn manouver that fails to take account of a
cyclists
presence.

As a cyclist and as a driver, I do everything in by power to prevent the
conflict between a cyclist going straight in and a driver turning left,
because I'm never sure who has priority over whom but the cyclist would
come
off worst:

- as a cyclist I will always look for a driver's left-turn indicator if
I'm
alongside him approaching a left turn: if he indicates, I will hang back
instead of being alongside him

- as a driver, I will move close to the kerb if I see a cyclist in my
rear-view or door mirror and I want to turn left, forcing him to overtake
on
the right as traffic should do - although I believe the Highway Code has
something to say about overtaking traffic that is turning at a junction


In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best
place for a cyclist to be - he's less of a hazard to drivers who may be
doing three times his speed. On a crowded city street, it's a differnt
matter - few pedestrians (except me) look out for other pedestrians, never
mind cyclists - and cars and cyclists are likely to be going at much more
similar speeds so cyclists are less of a hazard to drivers.

I fell foul of an irate woman when I was out cycling the other month. I
was
riding on a fast A road and, being tired as I approached the top of a hill
at a mere 10 mph, I pulled off the road onto a pavement at a convenient
dropped kerb - I judged that it was safer to stop and dismount away from
the
traffic. I'd ridden about 2 yards onto the pavement before stopping. The
woman was about 100 yards away and there were no other people around. As
she
approached while I was getting my breath back she gave me a real
ear-bashing
for "riding on the pavement".

In message m, Martin
Underwood writes
In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best place for a cyclist to be

Until someone steps out of their garden/house/shop onto the pavement
without first looking to make sure no cyclists are taking advantage of a
quiet road.
Cyclists should only be on the pavement if they are off their bike and
walking it along.
And certain cyclists need to remember that red lights at pedestrian
crossings apply to them too. Crossing the road at crossing A whole group
of us and cyclist nearly went into us. Straight through a red light.
--
CJG

"CJG" wrote in message
news
In message m, Martin
Underwood writes
In terms of cycling on pavements, I can't help thinking that on a quiet
pavement on a fast road with no pedestrians around, the pavement is the
best place for a cyclist to be

Until someone steps out of their garden/house/shop onto the pavement
without first looking to make sure no cyclists are taking advantage of a
quiet road.

As I said before, most pedestrians don't even look before walking out in
front of other pedestrians, so what hope is there for them looking for
cyclists? If only pedestrians were as disciplined as motorists.

I was talking about a deserted pavement in the countryside, not one with
driveways and shops on.

Reluctantly I still think that the differential speed between pedestrian and
bike (20 mph) is better than the differential speed between car and bike (40
mph). The moral of the story is that there should be many more cycle/horse
lanes.

Cyclists should only be on the pavement if they are off their bike and
walking it along.
And certain cyclists need to remember that red lights at pedestrian
crossings apply to them too. Crossing the road at crossing A whole group
of us and cyclist nearly went into us. Straight through a red light.

And also that zebra crossings apply to them. I witnessed a nasty accident
once where a cyclist was riding hell for leather down Blackboy Hill in
Bristol, weaving around cars, and failed to stop at a zebra crossing at
which all the other cars had stopped. He tried to swerve around the
pedestrian who was on the crossing, skidded and cannoned into first the
person on the crossing and then a load of passers by on the pavement. He and
his bike came off worst (poetic justice for once) though he threatened to
"sue the arse" off the woman on the zebra crossing - until he saw a
conveniently-placed policeman and realised the he didn't have a leg to stand
on (or a bike to sit on!).

Thanks all for those thoughts. I'm pleased to learn that there's a concensus
that the pavement should be a place for walking and one shouldn't need to be
looking over one's shoulder all the time for cyclist appearing from nowhere.

A few years back I signed up with that London cycling campaign but cancelled
the subscription when I heard their director talking on the BBC, trying to
justify the very thing we are talking about here. His argument being that
it was understandable since our roads are too hazardous, which of course
they are, but it doesn't mean we have to intimidate others.

From his hysterical statements, the young man in my example quite obviously
believed he was standing up for a cause, the freedom to engage in healthy
exercise unipeded by the nuisance of pedestrians. To be fair there are many
pavement cyclists who defer to those who might not be aware of their
presence, but there's a growing trend for quite the opposite, a kind of
street fascism which is not that far removed from his expression of
individual freedom and we don't even have the sound of jackboots to alert
us.

Quite often one sees groups of youths patrolling the pavement together
weaving in and out of pedestrians in an agressive manner. It is obviously
meant to intimidate, perhaps claim ownership of an area and maybe distract
attention from ongoing crime. For many there's simply the quite reasonable
fear of street robbery and a quick getaway for the perpetrators.

I can't imagine I'm the only one to notice these things, but it seems to go
completely over the heads of those that we pay to provide safety and free
passage on our streets.

Jeff Mowatt

"Jeff Mowatt" wrote the following in:


Thanks all for those thoughts. I'm pleased to learn that there's a
concensus that the pavement should be a place for walking and one
shouldn't need to be looking over one's shoulder all the time for
cyclist appearing from nowhere.

A few years back I signed up with that London cycling campaign but
cancelled the subscription when I heard their director talking on
the BBC, trying to justify the very thing we are talking about
here. His argument being that it was understandable since our
roads are too hazardous, which of course they are, but it doesn't
mean we have to intimidate others.

From his hysterical statements, the young man in my example quite
obviously believed he was standing up for a cause, the freedom to
engage in healthy exercise unipeded by the nuisance of
pedestrians. To be fair there are many pavement cyclists who defer
to those who might not be aware of their presence, but there's a
growing trend for quite the opposite, a kind of street fascism
which is not that far removed from his expression of individual
freedom and we don't even have the sound of jackboots to alert us.

I must admit to being a regular pavement cyclist. I often cycle on the
way to and from my local station and while I try as much as possible to
stay on the road, there are some stretches where the nature of the road
forces me to cycle on the pavement. In particular there is one stretch
with speed bumps so numerous and severe that it's both uncomfortable
and tiring to cycle there, and another where the traffic is so fast and
constant that it is near impossible and extremely dangerous to cross
the road to get to the correct side for cycling. There is a mini-
roundabout that should make it easy for a road user to join the faster
road, but in practice this roundabout is ignored by almost all drivers
even if you're in a car. If you're on a bike you have no chance
whatsoever.

On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible. I avoid pedestrians and slow down and cycle behind
them at walking pace, keeping a good distance away from them, if they
are blocking the whole pavement.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message ws.com...
"Jeff Mowatt" wrote in message
...
I used to wonder why the subject of cyclists on our roads raised such
strong
emotions. I've been cycling to work myself for the past 10 years, in all
but
the most inclement weather.

I phoned up the Police the other night to complain about noisy
neigbobours, then, as usual about a week later he turned up on a bike
and then rode off, on the pavement with no helmet

CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Robin May
writes
On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible.

If you were showing them respect your be walking your bike rather
than riding it. Pavements are there for walking. Not riding a bike
on. End of story.

I hope some time I come across you while riding my bike on a pavement,
as I shall feel happy showing you disrespect.

Ooh, what's this, am I posting this from an LUL email address? No, of
course not, but don't let that stop you from making the accusation.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote the following in:


In message , Robin May
writes
On the stretches where I do cycle on the pavement I show as much
respect as possible.

If you were showing them respect your be walking your bike rather
than riding it. Pavements are there for walking. Not riding a bike
on. End of story.

I hope some time I come across you while riding my bike on a pavement,
as I shall feel happy showing you disrespect.


If I meet you whilst you are pavement cycling I will be happy to make it as
difficult as possible for you to pass.

Victor