"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 02:31:53 +0100, "Nick"
wrote:

And yet TfL do have money and they could improve the situation if they got
their act together. Indeed, why are they spending money on marketing
themselves on billboards and on TV and radio when the all the bus shelters
in Bexley are heavily vandalised and/or smashed to pieces? They're a
joke.

Funnily enough, living in Wood Green, and working in both Lewisham and
central London, and regularly being in Tooting, Finchley, and other
parts of the capital, I can't think of anywhere that experiences the
type of damage you claim is happening in Bexley. Perhaps your area is
so uniquely lawless that it is beyond any remedial measures?
--
Nick Cooper

Thanks for that Nick ;-)

Seriously, though, I agree with your observations about Wood Green,
Finchley, etc, they just don't have the problem. Seems to be a strange
Eltham/Bexley/Dartford phenomenon, though the Met claim they have similar
such problems in Sutton also on the suburban fringes. From my observations,
parts of Bromley have this problem at a lower level, but when you get out of
the immediate public transport catchment area (ie over the river to
Havering/Thurrock, or further out into Kent in Sevenoaks/Tonbridge), the
problem does seem to vanish.

Somehow it's become fashionable for (small numbers of) teenagers to go
around etching all public transport infrastructure from the train windows,
bus windows (upper deck so defaced you can barely see out of the windows)
and bus stops. I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find any bus stop in the
borough that wasn't etched or had graffiti scrawled on it, and this is a
damning indictment of TfL. The problem is out of control I think, but it
would appear to be so difficult to catch these mindless morons in the act
unless you patrol every bus stop and bus every second of the day. Week
after week, poor quality CCTV pictures of kids are published in the local
paper caught on camera defacing busses, but to be truthful these pictures
aren't that great though I do think some get caught.

It is distressing and somewhat embarrassing when visitors come to Bexley for
all this damage to be on show. Similarly you'll see similar problems in
Eltham to the west and Dartford to east. All these areas share bus routes
and indeed rail services. Of course, it wasn't always like this, and I
remember a time when there was virtually no damage to anything around here;
the problem started slowly but nothing was done to combat it; occasional
damage was left unattended to, and the problem grew from there.

Southeasterm (the local rail company) is now finally doing something about
the problem with refurbished trains with sacrificial film which they seem
reasonably efficient at keeping in good condition (though some of the
unrefurbished trains are in a shocking state), but the same can't be said of
the busses.

Nick

Nick wrote:
"Nick Cooper" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 02:31:53 +0100, "Nick"
wrote:

And yet TfL do have money and they could improve the situation if they got
their act together. Indeed, why are they spending money on marketing
themselves on billboards and on TV and radio when the all the bus shelters
in Bexley are heavily vandalised and/or smashed to pieces? They're a
joke.
Funnily enough, living in Wood Green, and working in both Lewisham and
central London, and regularly being in Tooting, Finchley, and other
parts of the capital, I can't think of anywhere that experiences the
type of damage you claim is happening in Bexley. Perhaps your area is
so uniquely lawless that it is beyond any remedial measures?
--
Nick Cooper

Thanks for that Nick ;-)

Seriously, though, I agree with your observations about Wood Green,
Finchley, etc, they just don't have the problem. Seems to be a strange
Eltham/Bexley/Dartford phenomenon, though the Met claim they have similar
such problems in Sutton also on the suburban fringes. From my observations,
parts of Bromley have this problem at a lower level, but when you get out of
the immediate public transport catchment area (ie over the river to
Havering/Thurrock, or further out into Kent in Sevenoaks/Tonbridge), the
problem does seem to vanish.

Somehow it's become fashionable for (small numbers of) teenagers to go
around etching all public transport infrastructure from the train windows,
bus windows (upper deck so defaced you can barely see out of the windows)
and bus stops. I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find any bus stop in the
borough that wasn't etched or had graffiti scrawled on it, and this is a
damning indictment of TfL. The problem is out of control I think, but it
would appear to be so difficult to catch these mindless morons in the act
unless you patrol every bus stop and bus every second of the day. Week
after week, poor quality CCTV pictures of kids are published in the local
paper caught on camera defacing busses, but to be truthful these pictures
aren't that great though I do think some get caught.

It is distressing and somewhat embarrassing when visitors come to Bexley for
all this damage to be on show. Similarly you'll see similar problems in
Eltham to the west and Dartford to east. All these areas share bus routes
and indeed rail services. Of course, it wasn't always like this, and I
remember a time when there was virtually no damage to anything around here;
the problem started slowly but nothing was done to combat it; occasional
damage was left unattended to, and the problem grew from there.

Southeasterm (the local rail company) is now finally doing something about
the problem with refurbished trains with sacrificial film which they seem
reasonably efficient at keeping in good condition (though some of the
unrefurbished trains are in a shocking state), but the same can't be said of
the busses.

I may easily be wrong since I have no experience of Bexley (nearest
experience is Bromley) but this sounds more like a crime problem than a
TfL problem. If TfL were to keep replacing bus shelters and fixing up
buses just for them to be vandalised the next day, at some point it
becomes a waste of money if the police and the local council aren't
going to tackle the underlying problem.

Of course, that doesn't explain poor bus reliability; perhaps this is
related to a particular garage. The performance figures for Bexley don't
seem to be out of the ordinary in comparison to some other outer
boroughs like Sutton or Barnet (and in fact seem to have improved
slightly over the last year) but some areas may bear the brunt of
delays. The performance for Bexley is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about/pe...k/bexleyq4.pdf
Other boroughs' are available from he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about/pe...ugh-report.asp

I can't say I've experienced the same sort of problems you describe in
other outer London boroughs such as Harrow or Barnet. My experience in
my own borough of Hammersmith & Fulham (which has probably seen a lot
more money) is excellent, my main complaint being overcrowding on some
services at the height of the peaks.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Nick wrote:
snipped

I may easily be wrong since I have no experience of Bexley (nearest
experience is Bromley) but this sounds more like a crime problem than a
TfL problem. If TfL were to keep replacing bus shelters and fixing up
buses just for them to be vandalised the next day, at some point it
becomes a waste of money if the police and the local council aren't going
to tackle the underlying problem.

I understand what you're saying, but do you think they'd ever dare adopt
this approach in, say, Westminster? Never in a million years, it's only
because it's Bexley (where Ken doesn't get many votes) and tucked away out
on sight on the Kent borders that things have got this bad.

Our main problem is actually opening a meaningful dialogue with TfL about
it. I can tell you from a local policing PoV, that they're an almost
impossible organisation to deal with. My impression is that they do
whatever they please and don't seem to be answerable to anyone. Maintenance
of bus stops, for example, seems to be at the whim of Adshell or one of
their other contractors, and talking to them about the problem is also next
to impossible.

I know many of you reading this probably think I'm exagerating the
situation, but I can't describe how bad the bus infrastructure is in Bexley.
Over the next few weeks I'll take some pictures of what I mean, post them on
a website somwhere, and you can see for yourselves...

Nick

In message , Nick
writes
I know many of you reading this probably think I'm exagerating the
situation, but I can't describe how bad the bus infrastructure is in Bexley.
Over the next few weeks I'll take some pictures of what I mean, post them on
a website somwhere, and you can see for yourselves...

Well, for one lone voice I tend to agree to you. TfL seem to have grown
big enough that they regard themselves a law unto themselves (not enough
checks, control and balances?). There were certainly no local
consultation regarding major detrimental changes to bus services and
there seems to have been a lack of forethought about the effects of
their other policies, which might look good on paper but impact current
users (e.g. "free buses of school kids; lets not increase bus service
provision, which is already fully used"). I don't know whether it's
just the Bus department at TfL which seems to be particularly affected
by this "higher than thou" attitude.

Correspondence with TfL over a range of issues (not just the above)
always ends up with them alluding to "service performance criteria",
which they don't reveal so you can't go back and point out where it is
lacking or inconsistent.

I certainly understand that my local council find dealing with TfL Buses
to be similar to talking to a brick wall, despite them funding TfL and
being best placed to comment on local services!

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking