I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there, considering
the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of Hatton Cross?

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty. I'm still worried about
time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded or should I be able to fit
on the first one that pulls up? And do they tend to get stuck in
traffic? The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an extra
20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train should I be
to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I don't have the Way
Out book.)

Somebody suggested the 111 bus from Hounslow East instead. That will
avoid the steps and probably the crowds, but from what I can see, the
111 takes a while to reach the airport. Having already missed a flight
last year out of LCY due to a bus that took just a wee bit longer than
I had expected, I think I'll pass.

I'd rather avoid Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. (Why aren't
Underground tickets, including Oyster, valid on HE and HC during these
outages?)

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or is
that overkill?

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place? At
first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4 to
reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of posters,
the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the month!

David of Broadway wrote:
I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there,
considering the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of
Hatton Cross?

I should reckon on the journey from arrival at South Ken to arrival at
T3 taking 90 minutes, based on timings from the TfL Journey Planner
(which knows about the shutdown).

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty.

There are porters available at Hatton Cross who will carry it up the
stairs for you if you wish.

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more passengers
than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra buses they manage
to lay on.

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an extra 30
minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near the back of the
train and one near the middle, as far as I remember.

Somebody suggested the 111 bus from Hounslow East instead. That
will avoid the steps and probably the crowds, but from what I can
see, the 111 takes a while to reach the airport. Having already
missed a flight last year out of LCY due to a bus that took just a
wee bit longer than I had expected, I think I'll pass.

I'd rather avoid Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. (Why aren't
Underground tickets, including Oyster, valid on HE and HC during
these outages?)

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in HC
with First GW.

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or
is that overkill?

Ask your airline, unless anyone else knows.

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at weekends.

At first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4
to reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of
posters, the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the
month!

17 September I believe.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there,
considering the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of
Hatton Cross?

I should reckon on the journey from arrival at South Ken to arrival at
T3 taking 90 minutes, based on timings from the TfL Journey Planner
(which knows about the shutdown).

But the TfL Journey Planner doesn't know about the potential for
overcrowded buses.

And it's not like I can politely ask others to let me go first, since I
have a flight to catch -- presumably they also have flights to catch,
since they're also going through the same trouble I am.

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty.

There are porters available at Hatton Cross who will carry it up the
stairs for you if you wish.

And if I see one, I will certainly allow him to assist!

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more passengers
than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra buses they manage
to lay on.

According to the email from TfL, headways are 5-15 minutes (how
incredibly vague!). I have no idea if that's sufficient. Anybody
know?

Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me off
at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3? Or is
there another bus I should take?

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an extra 30
minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near the back of the
train and one near the middle, as far as I remember.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in HC
with First GW.

I obviously wouldn't expect BAA to do it for nothing. But TfL could
(and should, in my opinion) have offered compensation.

In some past outages, Travelcards have been valid on HEx. Now, I do
think it's a little bit ridiculous to require a Travelcard (why would
somebody who's making a single trip to the airport, especially before
9:30, have any use for a Travelcard?), but it's still a lot better than
nothing.

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or
is that overkill?

Ask your airline, unless anyone else knows.

I'm asking here to see if anyone else knows!

My airline (AA) says 2 hours. Given the security issues, that seems on
the short side. Or am I just paranoid?

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at weekends.

Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately following a
holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns until after
Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American, I don't know
British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people extend their
holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in particular, doesn't
travel drop off substantially as September progresses? So why not do
it later in the month?

Thanks.

On 26 Aug 2006 17:22:15 -0700, "David of Broadway"
wrote:

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or is
that overkill?

BAA were suggesting (as a general guide) 3 hours for international flights even
before the War on Moisture was declared, and it remains 3 hours still. Take
BAA's and AA's suggested times and split the difference? In any case, don't
arrive too early, as this increases congestion for everyone else.

In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place? At
first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4 to
reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of posters,
the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the month!

New timetable (including the return to T4) comes in on 17 September.

The 3 day closure is to allow all the new signalling to be installed and
tested as much was disconnected and removed when the loop was closed.
This also includes the extra stuff for the T5 extension.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more
passengers than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra
buses they manage to lay on.

According to the email from TfL, headways are 5-15 minutes (how
incredibly vague!). I have no idea if that's sufficient. Anybody
know?

Hmm. Since the trains are every 5 minutes for most of the day, I would
hope they would match that frequency, but of course the capacity of one
bus is a lot less than that of a train. My limited experience of
observing the T4 service is that they got it about right, if that's any
reassurance.

Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me
off at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3?
Or is there another bus I should take?

It's around 5 to 10 minutes, all underground and much of it on
travolators. The LU shuttle bus drops off at T2, but if you catch a
285, say, it will take you to the central bus station, about half way
between T2 and T3.

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an
extra 30 minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near
the back of the train and one near the middle, as far as I
remember.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Same distance, because both converge on the same stairs into the ticket
hall. The bus station is right outside, and includes both the special
buses and the normal services.

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in
HC with First GW.

I obviously wouldn't expect BAA to do it for nothing. But TfL could
(and should, in my opinion) have offered compensation.

In some past outages, Travelcards have been valid on HEx. Now, I do
think it's a little bit ridiculous to require a Travelcard (why
would somebody who's making a single trip to the airport,
especially before 9:30, have any use for a Travelcard?), but it's
still a lot better than nothing.

That applied during engineering works that stopped the Piccadilly at
Hyde Park Corner. The rule was probably because LU wanted to get
sufficient revenue to set against the exorbitant charges that BAA made.

[..]
And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first
place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at
weekends.

Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns
until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

There are normal service buses (also free) as well as the specials they
are laying on. They go to the central bus station.

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns
until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an
American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

Did they? I thought the carry-on baggage restrictions were imposed by
the government (Department for Transport).
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an
American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

Did they? I thought the carry-on baggage restrictions were imposed by
the government (Department for Transport).

You're right -- DfT it is:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...328078,00.html