Richard J. wrote:
In that case small windows will be very welcome in summer. Trains
running on the surface with large windows and no air-conditioning become
mobile greenhouses. The same goes for buses too.

Except TfL/the bus operators have no excuse for not putting air con on
buses. There's hardly the same 'it's too hard' argument you have with
the underground, just a matter of money - and air conditioning isn't
expensive these days anyway.

Jonathan

In article . com,
Boltar writes
Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche
to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of
new ATO signalling on the system.

No (blame whoever wrote the contract), Yes (ditto), and Yes.

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On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote:


Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche
to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of
new ATO signalling on the system.

B2003
Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define
functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with
different suppliers (and inevitably will since Westinghouse is part of
the Metronet consortium). It is going to cause a challenge for the
lines where interworking of services occur (e.g. Baron's Court to
Hanger Lane junction).

P

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:40:18 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:


Metronet are using Westinghouse's "distance to go" moving block
signalling.

http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1080661114828
http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1078652965937

Tube Lines are using the Alcatel system that works on the DLR, Paris RER
and the Skytrain in Vancouver.

There has been a fair amount of detail about both signalling schemes in
Modern Railways over the last year or so.
I believe - and I'm ready to be corrected - that DTG is fixed block
not moving block. Alcatel's S40 system is moving block (and as far as
I know isn't used by RER - the other main reference site is KCR's
WestRail in Hong Kong).

P

Windows smaller than 1992TS (1995/6TS were designed to align windows
with older 1983TS cars) and seats so upright and uncomfortable they're
like a chuch pew! Is this progress???

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John B wrote:

Boltar wrote:

From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors
on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit
disappointing.

The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add
much...

There are these occasional bits on the line, don't know if you've come
across them at all, called 'stations', where there are sometimes things to
look at - for example, the sign telling you which station it is, and thus
whether, having dragged yourself out of your book, you should get off
there.

tom

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On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Paul wrote:

On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to
do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new
ATO signalling on the system.

Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define
functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with
different suppliers

PC manufacturers are free to go with different suppliers, and yet
different brands of PCs seem to be remarkably compatible. Why can't the LU
requirements include a detailed technical specification, and require
compatibility with it? After all, they don't let each infraco use whatever
track gauge or traction voltage they feel like, do they? That wouldn't
affect supplier choice - an infraco could buy the gear from anyone, as
long as it complied with the standard.

tom

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"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, John B wrote:

Boltar wrote:

From the mockup I'd say it looks pretty much the same as the interiors
on the northern and jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit
disappointing.

The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add
much...

There are these occasional bits on the line, don't know if you've come
across them at all, called 'stations', where there are sometimes things to
look at - for example, the sign telling you which station it is, and thus
whether, having dragged yourself out of your book, you should get off
there.

Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic
announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look
out of the window to see where you are.

Peter Smyth

Barry Salter wrote:
Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic
announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look
out of the window to see where you are.

This relies on the Train Operator having set up the PIS correctly and
said PIS not sh*tting itself en route and deciding the train's going the
other way. [1]

Not on the Vic it doesn't - the PIS is linked to the ATO, rather than
relying on button-pushing.

I don't think I've ever been on a Vic train where the announcements
have gone wrong (and barely ever one where they've been dead), and I've
been commuting daily on the Vic for the last two years. I agree this
can vary - I've heard things go wrong on the District, and the one on
the Picc is pretty much never in service.

Plus people actually like to be able to look out of the windows, at
least on the surface sections that make up over 50% of the LU network.

Not on the Vic it doesn't - unless people are stowing away on
out-of-service trains to Northumberland Park...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Peter Smyth wrote:
Presumably though the new trains will all have in-car displays and automatic
announcements about the next station so there shouldn't be any need to look
out of the window to see where you are.

But will they have the innovation I've seen in Germany, of having
electronic arrows pointing at which side of the train the platform will
be on? Never really understood why this doesn't happen in the UK:
gradually I'm remembering which sides I want but arrows would greatly
help people flow.

--
Abi