Brian Begg-Robertson wrote:
Well you can tell your good friend that I for one object to the fact that a
lot more money is now going to be spent on these scumbags having a thorough
education in every other type of crime. If you took your head out of the
pages of the Daily Mail once in a while you might discover that, in the real
world, PRISON DOESN'T WORK.

Brian.

That's strange. Several years ago I personally arrested a number of
youths who did graffiti damage to the tune of several £100.000s
between them. Some went to prison some didn't. Those who went to
prison have kept well away from railway property ever since. Those who
were given a variety of CSOs erc carried on with their damage.

In the REAL world, PRISON DOES WORK.

George

Brian Begg-Robertson wrote:
Well you can tell your good friend that I for one object to the fact that a
lot more money is now going to be spent on these scumbags having a thorough
education in every other type of crime. If you took your head out of the
pages of the Daily Mail once in a while you might discover that, in the real
world, PRISON DOESN'T WORK.

Indeed it doesn't, just like community service doesn't, a slap on the
wrist doesn't, trying to talk to them nicely and use psychology on them
doesn't and so on. In fact, the only thing that does work is the death
penalty - not necessarily deterring others, but stopping the convicted
person from reoffending at least. I suspect even Daily Mail readers
might consider killing someone for spray painting a train a little bit
harsh (or maybe not).

At least in prison, they're not doing any more harm to us. Maybe we
need to keep them in longer, even if that will cost you and me even
more? Or keep them inside but don't let them mix with others (making it
a VERY harsh environment) or feel that prison is just another way of
life for a few weeks/months/years.

I feel that once the crime has been committed, it's already too late to
try and fix things regardless of whether we try to be clever, or
severe. Society has got to the point where it's unlikely you'll get
punished for anything, therefore crime is tolerated (and it is, with
PCSOs and ASBOs doing very little to change things).

If we have a situation where these people decide to reproduce because
there's not much else to do, while others decide against children
because of careers, then the people with very little will be the ones
paying for our pensions in later years! God help us. (That's my little
Daily Mail like story for the day!)

Jonathan

Brian Begg-Robertson wrote:
PS A similar pair were locked up in Manchester not so long ago. It's a
bloody waste of money and, in the long term, turns bad lads worse.

Evidence for your statement?

"That's strange. Several years ago I personally arrested a number of
youths who did graffiti damage to the tune of several £100.000s
between them. Some went to prison some didn't. Those who went to
prison have kept well away from railway property ever since. Those who

were given a variety of CSOs erc carried on with their damage. In the
REAL world, PRISON DOES WORK."

is evidence that you are wrong, or shouldn't generalise quite so much
by saying it 'turns bad lads worse' as if it's 100% of the time.

Jonathan

" writes:

Well, I'd suggest that for the next year or so a lot more money will be
saved by the Police, railway companies etc. in not having the clear up
after these two every time they feel like airbrushing a train or two.

Why do they have to spend money clearing up after them? Does 'well
done' graffiti actually do much harm? Some of it can be very artistic
and can add to the character of an area, and as far as trains are
concerned might even be considered to be preferable to the garish
colour schemes used by some TOCs.

On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:48:09 +0100 someone who may be Pyromancer
wrote this:-

Graffiti scum should be birched, hard.

Not allowed, I forget the reason why.

However, it might be worth glueing these scumbags to the front of a
train and taking them for a ride they are unlikely to forget,
perhaps between London and some place an hour or so away. They might
not be keen to repeat such an experience.

There would be some danger in this, but probably no more than they
expose themselves to when they carry out their "artistic"
activities. Provided passengers at the intermediate stations were
warmed beforehand the majority would probably enjoy the spectacle.

Even more of a punishment for the "artists" might be the fact that
others would laugh at them, especially when they were being attached
and removed from the train.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Jonathan Morris wrote:

...Or keep them inside but don't let them mix with others (making it
a VERY harsh environment)...

If you mean solitary confinement then I'd agree it would be (unduly)
harsh, but I can never understand why there's not more segregation of
prisoners by type of offence. With the exception of the 'categories'
(which seem to be more to do with the risk that inmates will abscond
and/or harm others) and - AIUI - special arrangements for sex
offenders, it seems the graffiti vandal is liable to be accommodated
alongside the car thief, bank robber or whatever, inevitably leading to
some 'skills' transfer. Would it be unduly difficult to group prisons
into, say, three or four per region, which would offer around 12 wings
each of which could be populated with inmates convicted for a specific
group of offences, such as graffiti and vandalism, vehicle theft,
burglary, assault etc.? I accept there would still be some learning
within groups (how to get into Clapham Yard without being spotted, how
to hot-wire a Vectra etc.) but better that than the convicted graffiti
vandal emerging as a bank robber.

Steve Adams

Brian Begg-Robertson wrote:

Well you can tell your good friend that I for one object to the fact that a
lot more money is now going to be spent on these scumbags having a thorough
education in every other type of crime. If you took your head out of the
pages of the Daily Mail once in a while you might discover that, in the real
world, PRISON DOESN'T WORK.

Aren't the railways in Britain privatized? Why is protecting their
property of any concern to the government? This is one of the problems
with privatization schemes. The private companies take the profitable
parts of the operation and leave the difficult problems to the government.

John Mara

"Pyromancer" wrote in message
...
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Brian
Begg-Robertson gently breathed:
wrote in message
roups.com...
Solario wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5306886.stm
Peter

Reasonably good news, :-)

Punishment should fit the crime. I think a 1024 community hours
cleaning trains may have been more constructive. But, this is
certainly beter than the usual slap in the wrist.

It's good to see that His Honour Judge Paul Worsley, Q.C., only
recently appointed as a Judge (and a good friend of mine) has shown his
Yorkshire commonsense and handed down a weighty sentence to these
scumbags.

Well you can tell your good friend that I for one object to the fact that
a
lot more money is now going to be spent on these scumbags having a
thorough
education in every other type of crime. If you took your head out of the
pages of the Daily Mail once in a while you might discover that, in the
real
world, PRISON DOESN'T WORK.

Indeed, this does appear to be true - though it depends on your concept
of what a prison is for.

Graffiti scum should be birched, hard. That's what they do in
Singapore, and it does work, remember all the hue and cry a few years
ago when they were going to birch an American boy who thought he was
above their laws? They have very little anti-social behaviour, simply
because they punish those who try it, in a harsh, painful, way. It's
quick, cheap, and doesn't cause any significant lasting damage. Far
better that sending them to a cushy jail where as you say, they just
learn how to do more crimes while enjoying all the "rights" we insist on
giving them, and costing about 12k a year (or is it 20k?) per prisoner
to run.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = http://www.wytches.net = The UK's Pagan
ISP!
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com

Oh for God's sake, listen to yourselves! You just harden people like that by
giving them the birch. We have whole areas of the country where the gun is
king and people cary them knowing that to do so shortens their own life
expectancy to mid 20s if they are lucky, and you expect them to respect the
birch. Kids these days are savages. Lock them up, throw the key away,
pretend that it will make them better people. It wont!

Brian.

"Phil McGlass" wrote in message
news
"Brian Begg-Robertson" wrote:

Well you can tell your good friend that I for one object to the fact that
a
lot more money is now going to be spent on these scumbags having a
thorough
education in every other type of crime. If you took your head out of the
pages of the Daily Mail once in a while you might discover that, in the
real
world, PRISON DOESN'T WORK.

Prison does work in that it keeps ne'er-do-wells out of circulation. It's
when
they are released that the problems arise.


Prison does NOT work in that it does not equip a prisoner for release again.
And the fact remains that, all bar a tiny minority, all of the many
thousands of people in prison right now WILL be released.

Brian.

"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
" writes:

Well, I'd suggest that for the next year or so a lot more money will be
saved by the Police, railway companies etc. in not having the clear up
after these two every time they feel like airbrushing a train or two.

Why do they have to spend money clearing up after them? Does 'well
done' graffiti actually do much harm? Some of it can be very artistic
and can add to the character of an area, and as far as trains are
concerned might even be considered to be preferable to the garish
colour schemes used by some TOCs.

Just when I thought that some of the answers could not get anymore silly.

Brian.