Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm

The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important
than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury
has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The
Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line
Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington,
in order to make a connection with the North London Railway").

And hooray for an outbreak of common sense. I am very pleased that the
"round the corner" link is to be part of the first phase rather than
simply being a possibility that might happen "sometime never". [1]

[1] excuse the cynicism but I think delivery of phase 2 of the ELLX is
significantly at risk due to both monetary and political pressures. I
hope it will happen but I wouldn't hold my breath.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Listening to some commentary on the radio last night it was stated that
running trains from Dalston Junc to Highbury is going to cost £400M.
Bearing in mind that all that needs to be done on the face of it is
reinstate a few hundred yards of track what is going to cost half a
Wembley Stadium of half a Dome.

Kevin

John Rowland wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
Oh, and at what point is it easier to mark out stations that *aren't*
step-free? East London looks like a bit of a mess (albeit a good one
if you don't use steps).

They don't seem to have realised that most of the Goblin stations are
already step free.

Saying that, so is Olympia - there's no step-free interchange between
southbound WLL and other trains, but there is step-free access from all
platforms to the street (the criterion used in the map).

I also realised that "Shepherd's Bush Market" needs some works to become
step-free which I didn't realise were planned.

Moving back to the map in general, the difficulty with step-free
information (which has been said on here many times before) is that it's
just one possible piece of information out of many about a station that
might be useful to people with difficulty moving around. Green Park has
step-free interchange between lines, but if I were taking someone with
walking difficulties on the Tube, I'd avoid it like the plague.

I wonder whether a "one-size-fits-all" approach is a bit out-of-date.
What might be useful is a dynamically-generated Tube map that users
could create online, which would plot details relevant to them. For
example, if you had trouble walking longer distances but could manage a
few steps, then you could enter those attributes into a page and have it
generate a Tube map showing which stations are the most attractive
interchanges and which are the least attractive.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Kev wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 16:20:05 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm

The hidden news in the press release (which is probably more important
than anything else) is that the onward northern extension to Highbury
has been brought forward to Phase 1 (small print at the bottom: "The
Mayor today made a commitment that Phase 1 of the East London Line
Project would be extended from Dalston Junction to Highbury & Islington,
in order to make a connection with the North London Railway").
And hooray for an outbreak of common sense. I am very pleased that the
"round the corner" link is to be part of the first phase rather than
simply being a possibility that might happen "sometime never". [1]

[1] excuse the cynicism but I think delivery of phase 2 of the ELLX is
significantly at risk due to both monetary and political pressures. I
hope it will happen but I wouldn't hold my breath.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Listening to some commentary on the radio last night it was stated that
running trains from Dalston Junc to Highbury is going to cost £400M.
Bearing in mind that all that needs to be done on the face of it is
reinstate a few hundred yards of track what is going to cost half a
Wembley Stadium of half a Dome.

Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for
the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian
Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly
extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve
at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one
isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling.

Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south
London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost
much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the
formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands?


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Moving back to the map in general, the difficulty with step-free
information (which has been said on here many times before) is that it's
just one possible piece of information out of many about a station that
might be useful to people with difficulty moving around. Green Park has
step-free interchange between lines, but if I were taking someone with
walking difficulties on the Tube, I'd avoid it like the plague.


Only Picc and Jub, isn't it? Or are there some Victoria Line lifts that
I've missed...?Anyway, agreed.

Given that both the Victoria and Jubilee part 1 were built with lots of
easy interchanges at other stations, and that the area under Green Park
wasn't exactly a King's Cross-style place of massive complexity, why
did they make everything so far away and hard to get between?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 5 Sep 2006 08:57:44 -0700, "John B" wrote:

* lifts appearing at Euston Square, Paddington (District), Highbury &
Islington, Tottenham Hale, Waterloo (Northern) and Vauxhall.

and Mile End.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Dave Arquati wrote:


Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for
the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian
Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly
extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve
at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one
isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling.

Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south
London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost
much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the
formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands?


The figure quoted could have been rubbish of course.

Kevin

Kev wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Not what I heard - the following parliamentary debate suggests £200m for
the northern part of (what was) Phase 2 - Dalston Junction to Caledonian
Road & Barnsbury. That includes turnback facilities at CR&B, possibly
extra tracks somewhere between there and Dalston, the reinstated curve
at Dalston, a replacement junction on the NLL (obviously the old one
isn't there any more) and probably some resignalling.

Then again, reinstating a significantly longer section of track in south
London and building a new station at Surrey Canal Road seems to cost
much less (£75m), so I'm not sure what difference is for. Is the
formation at Dalston still in Network Rail's hands?


The figure quoted could have been rubbish of course.

I think for any major public project, cost quotes can vary so wildly
between reports to be as good as useless.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm

Good news: More frequent service.
Good news: Will allow pre-pay Oyster.

Potentially good news: Improvement of station facilities?
Potentially good news: Metros?

Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face
longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse
seating, i.e. front-backward facing).

Bad news: No plans for a Northern Line interchange around Hampstead.
(It badly needs one).

Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to
take our bikes onto that line?

Next I'd like to see more frequent trains on Capital-Connect and to
allow pre-pay Oyster on that line, but no change in the trains
themselves please.

Earl Purple wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm


Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to
take our bikes onto that line?

I would expect the answer will be "yes but only off-peak", given that
TfL allow bikes on the Circle, District, Met, EL and H+C lines at all
times except 07.30 - 09.30 and 16.00 - 19.00, Monday to Friday.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/get...d/bicycles.asp

How does that compare with the current rules for taking bikes on the
NLL?

PaulO

Earl Purple wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
TfL have announced their branding plans for the North London Railway
concession:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5316358.stm

Good news: More frequent service.
Good news: Will allow pre-pay Oyster.

Potentially good news: Improvement of station facilities?
Potentially good news: Metros?

Bad news: Replacing the trains with carriages where the seats face
longitudal (all sideways). (Some of us actually prefer the transverse
seating, i.e. front-backward facing).

The reason for longitudinal seating is to provide more space for
standing passengers.

Bad news: No plans for a Northern Line interchange around Hampstead.
(It badly needs one).

An interchange between the NLL and Northern line at Hampstead would be
so incredibly expensive it would be completely unfeasible - both the NLL
and Northern line are in deep tunnel at quite differing levels, and the
construction of an interchange station would therefore require extremely
difficult and complex tunnelling. The demand (which would chiefly be to
and from just six stations north of Hampstead) is very unlikely to
justify such costs.

The best hope for a Northern line interchange is Primrose Hill; if/when
Queen's Park to Stratford services start running, then they will pass
through disused platforms about 200m from Chalk Farm station. This would
still provide for flows to/from stations east of Camden, and would
cost a fraction of the price (especially if the old station structures,
which seem to be in situ, can be revived).

Other more-possible-than-Hampstead possibilities are Tufnell Park, and
even Camden Town to Camden Road (an additional exit from the northern
ends of the platforms at Camden Town to a second ticket office closer to
Camden Road was floated as a potential congestion-relief measure).

Potentially bad news: Cycles on the trains? Will we still be allowed to
take our bikes onto that line?

Next I'd like to see more frequent trains on Capital-Connect and to
allow pre-pay Oyster on that line, but no change in the trains
themselves please.

Prepay will come within a few years but TfL are unlikely to gain control
so frequency is probably all down to Network Rail (who would need to
provide infrastructure for it).

I'm pretty sure cycles will still be permitted outside the peak hours,
as is standard practice on all above-ground and subsurface sections of
the Underground.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London