Graham J wrote:
Almost all Oyster fares remain the same except:
-- off-peak bus journeys (from £0.80 to £1.00)

Ouch, 25% fare increase.

Cash fares go up significantly:
-- via Zone 1 singles from £3 to £4 (!)
-- bus singles from £1.50 to £2
-- but paper daily bus passes are frozen, as are non-Z1 travelcards

Surely it is about time they announced a date when cash fares will be
abolished, at least for buses, so at least the punitive increases would make
more sense.

- Under-16s get a 50p Tube single or £1 daily cap on Oyster

How nice for them. I am one of those unconvinced by all these incentives,
especially free bus fares.

I agree wholeheartedly


What is wrong with learning to pay your way in
life at an early age instead of learning to be subsidised?


Precisely so.

It is bad enough that school kids bundle onto buses for a two or three stop
journey instead of a five minute walk, preventing other passengers boarding,
but free fares encourages them to bundle on the rear doors as well. If they
wish to encourage the use of public transport by children then fine, but how
about limiting it to evenings, weekends and school holidays instead so it is
encouraging leisure use?

Again, very well put.


- £4 penalty charge to be introduced on Oyster PAYG for those who do not
touch in and out (from November this year)


Is there a penalty for not "touching in" etc. on a bus or train station
where one has a fully pre-paid weekly travelcard on one's Oyster Card?

Fine, as long as they make an effort to explain exactly where you are
supposed to touch in and out. For example at Farringdon the correct
procedure, verified with TfL, when changing from London Underground to
National Rail and vice versa is to touch out on one platform and touch in on
the other. All the signs do is tell PAYG users to touch the validators, not
under what circumstances and whether they need to look for one.

G.

Marc.

Londoncityslicker wrote:
Graham J wrote:
Almost all Oyster fares remain the same except:
-- off-peak bus journeys (from £0.80 to £1.00)

Ouch, 25% fare increase.

Cash fares go up significantly:
-- via Zone 1 singles from £3 to £4 (!)
-- bus singles from £1.50 to £2
-- but paper daily bus passes are frozen, as are non-Z1 travelcards

Surely it is about time they announced a date when cash fares will be
abolished, at least for buses, so at least the punitive increases would make
more sense.

- Under-16s get a 50p Tube single or £1 daily cap on Oyster

How nice for them. I am one of those unconvinced by all these incentives,
especially free bus fares. What is wrong with learning to pay your way in
life at an early age instead of learning to be subsidised?

It is bad enough that school kids bundle onto buses for a two or three stop
journey instead of a five minute walk, preventing other passengers boarding,
but free fares encourages them to bundle on the rear doors as well. If they
wish to encourage the use of public transport by children then fine, but how
about limiting it to evenings, weekends and school holidays instead so it is
encouraging leisure use?

- £4 penalty charge to be introduced on Oyster PAYG for those who do not
touch in and out (from November this year)

Fine, as long as they make an effort to explain exactly where you are
supposed to touch in and out. For example at Farringdon the correct
procedure, verified with TfL, when changing from London Underground to
National Rail and vice versa is to touch out on one platform and touch in on
the other. All the signs do is tell PAYG users to touch the validators, not
under what circumstances and whether they need to look for one.

G.

They should abolish that £3 Oyster deposit for prepay.

For the first time, I obtained an Oyster card today, because I wanted a
1-week Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard. It cost me £22.20 - no £3 deposit was
charged. Was this a mistake?

And should start selling them in vending machines as suggested.
And out them into corner shops and supermarkets.

I got mine in my local sub post office today.


For example. I've got some relatives coming down next week.
We are planning on travelling on the choob.
They probably come down once a year.
It's a pain queuing up and paying £3 deposit.
Would be much easier if we could just get them from a machine free when
you put a tenner on.

As for free/cheap fares for kids.
The buses have been ruined by kids.
I used to use the bus regularly. Now I cant get on them
They got about two stops. OR just get on for fun.
Or have to tolerate loud and abusive kids for most of my journey.
They should pay their way just like anyone else.
Reduced rates are fine. But totally free is insane.

wrote:

I got mine in my local sub post office today.

Not enough. If they're to replace cash fares (which they effectively
are) they need to be on sale just about everywhere, especially relating
to buses.

Just about every supermarket and corner shop sells mobile phone top-up
vouchers. They should also sell pre-credited Oysters.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:

Everyone in this NG knows what Oyster is, how to get one, what it costs
etc, thus if anyone on this NG pays one of these rip-off fares they
have only themselves to blame. You cannot, however, apply this
argument to a non- or poor-English-speaking tourist, or visitor to
London who doesn't frequent big cities and their transport systems, who
would just go to the ticket machine and prod the likely looking button.

The first point of contact for TfL really ought to be the website.
However like most other websites put together by British businesses and
organisations it assumes that everyone accross the world reads English.
Even the visitlondon.com site fails to display those nice little flags
leading you on to pages in different languages.

Fortuneately the situation improves slightly once the tourist gets to
London. TfL produce flyers in foreign languages for example, I'm not
sure if they promote Oyster as a benefit to tourists.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Well, at least transport in London is still THE MOST!

THE MOST expensive in Europe

and

THE MOST outdated in Europe

:-S

Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

I got mine in my local sub post office today.

Not enough. If they're to replace cash fares (which they effectively
are) they need to be on sale just about everywhere, especially relating
to buses.

Just about every supermarket and corner shop sells mobile phone top-up
vouchers. They should also sell pre-credited Oysters.

Neil
I am all for this.

In the end I think it will all just take a bit of time. You can't say
TfL aren't promoting the Oyster card everywhere. They could maybe do a
bit campaign aimed at tourists, though. I have seen tourists who were
completely confused by the card they got when they asked for a weekly
pass, trying to somehow insert the oyster card in the travel card slot.
O, and make them work on all NR services obviously, but it looks like
we're getting there.

Phil Richards wrote:

The first point of contact for TfL really ought to be the website.

Really? I think you're again thinking like a user of this NG (and a
travel professional, as I recall you being - sorry if I recall
wrongly).

The first point of contact for many will be the bus stop/driver or the
Tube station. What Oyster is, where to get one from (at all times of
day) and costs should be easily available to someone at one of those
points. At present, it isn't; there is information there, but it's
bitty and doesn't fit together for someone without background
knowledge.

Neil

sweek wrote:

In the end I think it will all just take a bit of time.

Yep. Until that time has been taken, it is not reasonable to impose
penalties (and that's what a 4 quid zone 1 single is) for not using
Oyster.

I'm fine with it being cheaper with Oyster, but this is clearly a
punitive penalty fare. For some shorter journeys, it will now be
cheaper to travel by taxi if paying by cash up-front. That's not
right.

You can't say
TfL aren't promoting the Oyster card everywhere.

They're promoting it in a way that makes sense to people that
understand London transport. If it is to be the only (reasonable) way
of paying for travel, that's not good enough.

They could maybe do a
bit campaign aimed at tourists, though. I have seen tourists who were
completely confused by the card they got when they asked for a weekly
pass, trying to somehow insert the oyster card in the travel card slot.

Which is entirely reasonable; the "swipe" pictogram only means
something to those familiar with it. A picture of the respective
tickets on the barrier might help more. Remember that barriers are, in
the first place, foreign to much of Europe, let alone further afield.

Neil

wrote:
Londoncityslicker wrote:
They should abolish that £3 Oyster deposit for prepay.

For the first time, I obtained an Oyster card today, because I wanted a
1-week Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard. It cost me £22.20 - no £3 deposit was
charged. Was this a mistake?

The Oyster deposit is paid by those that do not get a travelcard loaded
at the time of obtaining the card, hence "deposit for prepay" above.

ESB

Neil Williams wrote:
Phil Richards wrote:

The first point of contact for TfL really ought to be the website.

Really? I think you're again thinking like a user of this NG (and a
travel professional, as I recall you being - sorry if I recall
wrongly).

I was thinking about the number of visitors coming to London to do some
research on-line before arriving. Whilst the numbers using this (& other
NG's) are small, the www is by far the most accessible tool for
gathering together the facts needed for a holiday or visit.

And certainly working in the travel profession, it's nice to be able to
advise potential travellers to mainland Europe websites for say local
transport in capital cities that have the info in English. Sad to say
someone in France with little knowledge of English may be completely put
off coming to London through the lack of info in French on *official*
websites.

The first point of contact for many will be the bus stop/driver or the
Tube station. What Oyster is, where to get one from (at all times of
day) and costs should be easily available to someone at one of those
points. At present, it isn't; there is information there, but it's
bitty and doesn't fit together for someone without background
knowledge.

The information is there in printed format at tube stations and the
(few) travel information desks scattered across the capital. I think
you'll find plenty of information on how much it costs with Oyster vs
cash albeit not spelled out in different languages. Of course one still
needs to get their head around the maze of zones etc, which of course
have been around much longer than Oyster and of course are the backbone
of most other public transport systems in large cities.


--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk