From BBC News online...

quote
Pollution filters fitted to all London buses as part of a £30m project
are to be modified, after it emerged they were pumping out other
harmful toxins.

"Particulate traps" to catch tiny bits of dust and dirt were fitted at
the end of 2005 to reduce the environmental impact of the expanded bus
fleet.

But a chemical reaction caused by the filters created five times the
amount of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) emissions.

Transport for London is now testing new filters which would screen out
NO2.
/quote

Full story at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5364510.stm


It appears London Buses' attempt to do the right thing encountered
unforseen unintended consequences. My basic opinion is at least TfL is
attempting to minimise negative environmental impacts from
transportation - we are at pretty early days in this effort, and there
will be an element of learning from mistakes such as this. Perhaps
London Buses should've trialled the particulate traps more thoroughly -
I'm sure the pretty thorough Transport Committee at the London Assembly
will take a good look into this.

I've been pretty impressed with the experimental hydrogen fuel cell
buses that operate on the RV1 route, which emit only water vapour [1].
I wonder if that's not the way forward - obviously it would involve an
enormous change of infrastructure, but perhaps there could be a more
comprehensive trial of fuel cell buses in London. Obviously the cost is
a major issue - but TfL has a considerable level of indirect buying
power in that it can specifiy to bus operators what type of vehicles
they use.

[1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/fuel-cell-buses.asp

On 21 Sep 2006 07:18:03 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

From BBC News online...

quote
Pollution filters fitted to all London buses as part of a £30m project
are to be modified, after it emerged they were pumping out other
harmful toxins.

"Particulate traps" to catch tiny bits of dust and dirt were fitted at
the end of 2005 to reduce the environmental impact of the expanded bus
fleet.

But a chemical reaction caused by the filters created five times the
amount of nitrogen dioxide (NO2) emissions.

Transport for London is now testing new filters which would screen out
NO2.
/quote

Full story at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5364510.stm


It appears London Buses' attempt to do the right thing encountered
unforseen unintended consequences. My basic opinion is at least TfL is
attempting to minimise negative environmental impacts from
transportation - we are at pretty early days in this effort, and there
will be an element of learning from mistakes such as this. Perhaps
London Buses should've trialled the particulate traps more thoroughly -
I'm sure the pretty thorough Transport Committee at the London Assembly
will take a good look into this.

Well yes but £3,000 per bus is going to spent putting on revised traps.
That's another £24m! While I accept air quality is an important issue
does it really warrant that level of spend, on top of £30m, when there
are other improvements that could be made to increase public transport
usage and reduce car use?

I've been pretty impressed with the experimental hydrogen fuel cell
buses that operate on the RV1 route, which emit only water vapour [1].
I wonder if that's not the way forward - obviously it would involve an
enormous change of infrastructure, but perhaps there could be a more
comprehensive trial of fuel cell buses in London. Obviously the cost is
a major issue - but TfL has a considerable level of indirect buying
power in that it can specifiy to bus operators what type of vehicles
they use.

[1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/fuel-cell-buses.asp

Well yes but they are incredibly expensive to purchase and have a
relatively limited operating range. Jolly nice technology but things
have to move on a long way to get them to be economically rational for
operators.

The much vaunted hybrid buses on the 360 would appear to have been
removed from use due to their chronic unreliability. It would be
interesting to know what is going to be done to resolve these problems
otherwise a lot of money has been spent to no great effect.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 21 Sep 2006 07:18:03 -0700, "Mizter T"
wrote:

I've been pretty impressed with the experimental hydrogen fuel cell
buses that operate on the RV1 route, which emit only water vapour
[1]. I wonder if that's not the way forward - obviously it would
involve an enormous change of infrastructure, but perhaps there
could be a more comprehensive trial of fuel cell buses in London.
Obviously the cost is a major issue - but TfL has a considerable
level of indirect buying power in that it can specifiy to bus
operators what type of vehicles they use.

[1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/fuel-cell-buses.asp

Well yes but they are incredibly expensive to purchase and have a
relatively limited operating range. Jolly nice technology but things
have to move on a long way to get them to be economically rational
for operators.

Also, although there is zero pollution on the street with fuel-cell
buses, my understanding is that a lot of energy and/or pollution and/or
fossil fuel is involved in producing the hydrogen, so it will need
better technology to make this a respectable fuel source for the future.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:43:49 GMT, "Richard J." wrote:

Also, although there is zero pollution on the street with fuel-cell
buses, my understanding is that a lot of energy and/or pollution and/or
fossil fuel is involved in producing the hydrogen, so it will need
better technology to make this a respectable fuel source for the future.

Trolley buses, anyone?

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:43:49 GMT, Richard J. wrote:


[...] although there is zero pollution on the street with fuel-cell
buses [...]

What about air-borne dust particles teared off from the road surface by the
wheels, doesn't that count?

--
jhk

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Well yes but they are incredibly expensive to purchase and have a
relatively limited operating range. Jolly nice technology but things
have to move on a long way to get them to be economically rational for
operators.

I saw one on the RV1 this afternoon. I haven't seen one for ages and
thought they'd been withdrawn. Have I just been unloucky/unobservant?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:43:49 GMT, Richard J. wrote:


[...] although there is zero pollution on the street with fuel-cell
buses [...]

What about air-borne dust particles teared off from the road
surface by the wheels, doesn't that count?

No, because...er....because .... oh, yes, the excess water vapour from
the engine would dampen the dust and stop it blowing about. (Phew, that
was a tricky one.)

Anyway, we don't have this problem in London....
http://tinyurl.com/rjgpw

By the way, it's "torn", not "teared". Yes, I know, it's a funny old
language.
:-)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:43:51 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Well yes but they are incredibly expensive to purchase and have a
relatively limited operating range. Jolly nice technology but things
have to move on a long way to get them to be economically rational for
operators.

I saw one on the RV1 this afternoon. I haven't seen one for ages and
thought they'd been withdrawn. Have I just been unloucky/unobservant?

RV1 timetables can be found at:

http://www.firstlondontimetables.co....es/rv1-w19.htm

The second entry for RV1 details the scheduled workings for the Fuel
Cell vehicles. My understanding is that the Monday - Friday service is
due to continue until early January 2007.

Marc Brett wrote:

Trolley buses, anyone?

How about dual mode (diesel/electric) buses? Whilst they don't prevent
pollution entirely, you can choose to wire high-pollution areas
initially and move towards the whole route over a period of time.

Luke

wrote:
Marc Brett wrote:

Trolley buses, anyone?

How about dual mode (diesel/electric) buses? Whilst they don't prevent
pollution entirely, you can choose to wire high-pollution areas
initially and move towards the whole route over a period of time.

Why subject London to the ugliness of wiring the whole route? Just wire the
bus stops. If a bus goes through several stops without stopping, the diesel
generator would kick in.