jonmorris wrote:

Of course, I have no complaint about BTP here - they weren't involved
at all (which IS the problem - they weren't even notified until I told
them later). Since I've called them, they have given me a reference and
called me back to check I am okay. In due course, I am going to them to
make a formal statement.

As a matter of interest, as you were going to Hatfield what would you
have done if the security men hadn't asked you to leave the train
there? Also (and I realise this may be difficult or impossible to
answer) did you get the impression that the troublesome couple and
child were intending to travel beyond Hatfield?

wrote:
As a matter of interest, as you were going to Hatfield what would you
have done if the security men hadn't asked you to leave the train
there? Also (and I realise this may be difficult or impossible to
answer) did you get the impression that the troublesome couple and
child were intending to travel beyond Hatfield?

As soon as I realised the train was continuing with no police
attendance, I realised I was screwed and told the guard so. I was,
sadly, proved right.

I had no idea where they were getting off, although such people do seem
to be quite common in Hatfield.

Jonathan

Neil Williams wrote:

I have never, ever, in many journeys over many years, encountered
anything I'd think to be remotely threatening on a late-night train.
I've seen drunk people, silliness, high spirits and such, but never
anything seriously threatening.

Thankfully rare, but my tally is two incidents - one in the 70's when I
was the target of unwanted attention (and actually found the BTP rather
intimidating as well on that occasion), and the other in the 90's where
I was aboard a train including some Mk1 corridor coaches, and observed a
man walking past my compartment carrying a knife with roughly a six-inch
blade, followed shortly afterwards by two uniformed police officers, who
presumably detained him soon afterwards as the train was delayed at its
next stop for about 10 minutes. Both of these were after midnight.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632956.html
(43 084 at Basingstoke, May 1995)

"jonmorris" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
As a matter of interest, as you were going to Hatfield what would you
have done if the security men hadn't asked you to leave the train
there? Also (and I realise this may be difficult or impossible to
answer) did you get the impression that the troublesome couple and
child were intending to travel beyond Hatfield?

As soon as I realised the train was continuing with no police
attendance, I realised I was screwed and told the guard so. I was,
sadly, proved right.

Did you ask about continuing beyond Hatfield and getting a cab/lift home
from the next stop? Not and ideal solution, but I might well have
considered it had I been in the same situation.

Aaron Borbora wrote:
Did you ask about continuing beyond Hatfield and getting a cab/lift home
from the next stop? Not and ideal solution, but I might well have
considered it had I been in the same situation.

I didn't think that at the time. It's easy to think of all the things
you could have done after the event.

Certainly calling the police on my mobile would have been a good idea,
rather than using the alarm, although the train would have long since
departed by the time they arrived (Potters Bar to Hatfield at that time
of night is only a few minutes) as it wouldn't have had any cause to
stop and hold anyone onboard.

Jonathan

jonmorris wrote:

Certainly calling the police on my mobile would have been a good idea,
rather than using the alarm, although the train would have long since
departed by the time they arrived (Potters Bar to Hatfield at that time
of night is only a few minutes) as it wouldn't have had any cause to
stop and hold anyone onboard.

You could have used the alarm after the train had stopped, and
explained to staff that the police were coming. But, as you say, it's
always easier to think of these things after the event.

On Sun, 8 Oct 2006, allan tracy wrote:

Yet, there are those countries where women and children will quite
happily venture out late at night to use public transport and in
complete safety.

Other contries have different people, different mindsets..

We really should not have to put up with it but as most of us resort
(if that's the right word) to our cars security on public transport
late at night has unfortunately become a minority issue - we just
don't care enough.

Noone will tackle any of the underlying issues, so it's going to happen,
and keep happening.
--
Chris Johns

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006, wrote:

As there was a child involved I would have called the police in any
case. I'm not sure that pulling the alarm achieved much. Why did you
choose that course of action?

If the woman involved was the child's mother, I doubt it was the first or
will be the last time that the child had witnessed such actions or
behaviour. So, another generations' worth of this sort of behaviour to
look forward to.
--
Chris Johns

"jonmorris" wrote in message
ups.com...
They must have done then, but definitely a different company (I think I
heard the name 'purple' mentioned by BTP). Having plain clothed
security on all late night trains (there aren't that many running)
would be a very good idea for both passengers and the train company.

How about...
Plain clothed official require attendance of uniformed support if they are
not to be seen as just another passenger who 'is up for it/wants some of it'
(violence).

Also plain clothed security would tend to allow incidents to develop and
then require additional uniformed intervention, whereas the same official in
uniform might prevent the incident starting in the first place.

Roger R

I don't think trouble makers are all that much of a recent development,
and they aren't all late nighters either. Its detecting and dealing
with them that has dropped below the horizon

On the York Aberystwyth one night in the early eighties there was a
young lass in the next compartment (compartments - oh please - luxury!)
A group of scumbags got on at Leeds and started behaving - to say the
least - in an antisocial manner.

I asked them to desist and they spent the rest of the way to
Huddersfield flexing the wall of my compartment and chanting xxxxing Mr
British Rail - we'll have you! Of course at Huddersfield they all got
off as meek and mild as you like and I was left to enjoy my Deltic
haulage in peace. No repercussions

Similarly a late night run on a 142 from Leeds one night ended up with
me and the guard in the back cab between Leeds and Marsden whilst the
yobs - do they have a special breed there? - hurled Stella cans and
curry at each other. The BTP were called and were at Marsden waiting
for them. Don't know what happened - we were away.

The best was on a mid afternoon 156 between York and Leeds when a
leatherclad plonker spat on the floor and the nice German lady sitting
opposite him told him in no uncertain terms that this was not a nice
thing to do.

After some snarling he made to light up to show his contempt so I
pointed out the little red circle and suggested he thought better of
it. There then followed some further debate and he sat there cursing.

When we got to Leeds the guard must have noticed what was going on and
the BTP police were there - exit yob. I then noticed the BTP outside my
window pointing fingers at me and sure enough back on they came. "Are
you railway" - yes - "Would you be prepared to give evidence" - of
course. At this point yobs accomplice, previously unseen, rose up from
his seat and said that if I opened my mouth any more I would never see
Manchester.

He hadn't seen the large BTP sergeant immediately behind him who simply
scruffed him, dragged him out over the seat top, and it was him who
never saw Manchester! Needless to say, I never heard anything further.

That's what we need - quick summary discouragement. These guys are very
brave when they are in the ascendant, but put 'em down and they stay
down.