On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:45:00 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Paul Corfield wrote:

The info provided for the Cycle Show at Excel was equally poor and yet
that was an event supported by TfL. Most odd.

Call me insane, but could this possibly be because they expected people to
get there by bike?

Hello Insane.

I'm sure they would have liked that. However there is little point in
wishing to promote integrated transport if you don't make all of the
information equally prominent and clear. The info for arriving by car
was easier to find than confirming what the public transport
arrangements were.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm

"More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around
London, according to a study by TfL [...]

Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred
stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old
chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden!

Perhaps what we need is a sort of Beck-style diagram for walking routes
(ie roads). It couldn't cover every road, and probably couldn't cover
the
whole of London on one map (ie you might just do central London), but if
it could give people a simple skeleton on which to hang their
geographical
knowledge of London, it might make them more confident in walking about.
Show major roads in the area, and have some notation for sidestreets.
And
an index!

Alternatively, spider-style maps dotted round the place.

Maybe. I think the required map already exists - the A-Z

No. The problem with that, or anything similar, is that it shows too
much - it's hard to pick up the A-Z and instantly see what a sensible
walking route between two nontrivially distant points is. I think people
need something that focuses on key walking arteries.

I agree - the A-Z also highlights classified main roads, which are aimed
solely at motor traffic; key walking arteries can be any class of road,
but I think their most important property is intuitive wayfinding - i.e.
avoiding lots of changes of direction along different streets, which can
confuse pedestrians and slow them down. Other properties might be good
facilities (i.e. at least occasional shops), generally pleasant
environment (e.g. alongside green space), safety (both from accidents
with motor vehicles and in terms of crime).

I think Marylebone High St is a good example of a good walking road
which is easily overlooked on an A-Z. It's interesting with various
shops, restaurants and cafes (an interesting street probably feels
quicker to walk along, just because there is more to look at), it's easy
to follow, it has good pavements and it links Oxford Street with
Regent's Park.

Regarding what would make a good walking map, I think the Quickmap idea
is a good start (quickmap.com/walk2learn.htm - click on the last box of
the Flash movie). I don't really get on with their other maps that well,
and I prefer a bit more accuracy, but the idea of highlighting key
centres in an obvious manner, simplifying the walking network and
colour-coding types of area (shopping, entertainment etc) is
commendable. In particular, using different size circles to show roughly
the range of transport services on offer, and distinguishing local
centres with both Tube & bus services from those with only bus services
is an excellent idea.

Also, the A-Z is particularly bad since it's split into fairly small
pages - if your journey crosses an edge, or worse still a corner, you're
out of luck. TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as
sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better,
and certainly excellent for the price.

Actually I know what I'd like. I find the street maps displayed at
Tube and rail stations - especially the TfL one's that have a street
index - and even those simple one's shown on main bus stops - really
handy at times when I know I'm broadly in the right place but need to
pinpoint an exact location, or route to that location. So I'd find
similar street maps that show the locality, displayed on the street,
replete with an index, very useful.

Yes, not a bad idea at all.

A gripe I have with existing pedestrian signage is that signs may point
you in the direction of a destination, but fail to confirm that you're
going in the right direction later on. I imagine there's a certain
distance beyond which people begin to doubt whether they followed the
signs correctly - even if they're heading in the right direction. It
must vary from person to person but I think it could happen after ten
minutes or so.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets
(ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better,
and certainly excellent for the price.

Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find
the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes
either.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets
(ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better,
and certainly excellent for the price.

Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find
the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes
either.


Use the online form at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml

PaulO

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets
(ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better,
and certainly excellent for the price.

Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find
the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes
either.


They're free. Many Underground stations leaflet racks had the relevant
maps for their area plus possibly the surrounding areas as well, I also
saw them at libraries and other public buildings, a few NR stations and
possibly the TfL travel info centres. However I don't see them so often
now, perhaps because stocks are running low - the 2004 is the current &
second edition, I think the first editions came out in 2001.

But you'll be pleased to hear you can order them free online from TfL -
they'll post them to you:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml

There are 19 in total, and (I think) each has a detailed map of central
London routes on the reverse. I suspect that should one ask for all 19
or for an unreasonable number of duplicates then they might not be
forthcoming.

The maps are produced in association with the London Cycling
Campaign...
http://www.lcc.org.uk/
....a splendid organisation of which I've been a membver for years and
thoroughly recommend to anyone who has a bike and might ever use it in
the metropolis.

In message . com, Paul
Oter writes

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets
(ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better,
and certainly excellent for the price.

Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find
the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes
either.


Use the online form at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml

and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's cycle
tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I suspect due to
the weighting it gives to various road types, but I did use it and find
a lovely off-main-road route which I probably wouldn't have found
otherwise, for my daily commute.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

In article . com,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets
(ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are
better, and certainly excellent for the price.

Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I
don't find the web version easy to follow or offering very useful
cycling routes either.

They're free. Many Underground stations leaflet racks had the
relevant maps for their area plus possibly the surrounding areas as
well, I also saw them at libraries and other public buildings, a few
NR stations and possibly the TfL travel info centres. However I don't
see them so often now, perhaps because stocks are running low - the
2004 is the current & second edition, I think the first editions came
out in 2001.

But you'll be pleased to hear you can order them free online from
TfL - they'll post them to you:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml

There are 19 in total, and (I think) each has a detailed map of
central London routes on the reverse. I suspect that should one ask
for all 19 or for an unreasonable number of duplicates then they might
not be forthcoming.

The maps are produced in association with the London Cycling
Campaign...
http://www.lcc.org.uk/
...a splendid organisation of which I've been a membver for years
and thoroughly recommend to anyone who has a bike and might ever use it
in the metropolis.

Thanks. None of the guides claim to cover Putney I see. I've ordered 10
and 14, one of which appears to cover it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Thanks. None of the guides claim to cover Putney I see. I've ordered 10
and 14, one of which appears to cover it.


Putney is on the border of maps 9 and 14, so I'd order 9 as well.

PaulO

In article ,
(Paul G) wrote:

and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's
cycle tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I
suspect due to the weighting it gives to various road types, but I
did use it and find a lovely off-main-road route which I probably
wouldn't have found otherwise, for my daily commute.

I found it pretty useless for improving my long distance route, from
Westminster to Putney, to be honest. It either suggested what i was
already using or some strange and lengthy diversions.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article .com,
(Paul Oter) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Thanks. None of the guides claim to cover Putney I see. I've
ordered 10 and 14, one of which appears to cover it.

Putney is on the border of maps 9 and 14, so I'd order 9 as well.

Probably not necessary for the journeys to and from Putney that I'm
likely to do. I'll wait till the others arrive now and review the
situation then, I think.

--
Colin Rosenstiel