Phil Richards wrote
[...]
Plus the scenario when the bus gets terminated short of the
destination
advertised on the blinds on the front at the time you boarded! I know

drivers are supposed to issue a transfer ticket, but I'm not sure
that
happens often in practice. So if using PAYG Oyster you loose out by
paying for a 2nd ride.

Someone on this NG claimed that he touched in on the 2nd Bus and found
he had been charged nothing.

Maybe the software is set to ignore a second touch in on the same route
and same direction within a set time period ?

Anyone have a example such as a trip where they took a bus ride and
later in the day another in the same direction on the same route ?

--
Mike D

In article ,
(Aaron Borbora) wrote:

"John Salmon" wrote in message
...

"Mizter T" wrote
This BBC London webpage include a fares table comparing the
current and future single (SDS), standard return (SDR) and cheap day
return (CDR) fares between a number of stations.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/...9/rail_fares_f
eature.shtml

Any prizes for guessing where that photograph was taken? I think
it's Scotland.

Might be Glasgow Queen Street, but I'm not sure.

Could be Edinburgh Waverley maybe?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c6f527$72c23e20$LocalHost@default...

Someone on this NG claimed that he touched in on the 2nd Bus and found
he had been charged nothing.

Forgive a slightly off-topic question..

How can you, or can't you, track your usage on Oyster PAYG? All I find is
that I'm emailed when I get topped-up; I have looked on the website, but
can't find anything to help. Do I just have to track my own journeys and see
whether they (sort of) match the cost?

--
Walter Mann

"Walter Mann" wrote in message
...

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c6f527$72c23e20$LocalHost@default...

Someone on this NG claimed that he touched in on the 2nd Bus and found
he had been charged nothing.

Forgive a slightly off-topic question..

How can you, or can't you, track your usage on Oyster PAYG? All I find is
that I'm emailed when I get topped-up; I have looked on the website, but
can't find anything to help. Do I just have to track my own journeys and
see whether they (sort of) match the cost?

Have you 'created an account'?

Click the (reasonably) obvious button.

tim

It paves the way for Oyster Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) to be implemented across
the whole National Rail network in London (currently Oyster PAYG is only

I'm sure they could have adopted Oyster without all this shennanegans -
when they finally roll out smart ticketing everywhere they're not going to
zone up the country then (maybe they will, for more money??).

The zonal system is great for the TOC and those traveling between extremes
of zones but short hops that happen to cross a boundry will lose out (more
likely take the car).

I commuted with a Z1-6 + extension to my nearest zone 6 station for years
marvelling at being able to travel anywhere in London for no extra cost
(which I did about 4 times a year). A point to point to a Z4 station then a
Z1-4 t/card is £400/pa cheaper and most cases performs the same role - also
can be applied to ODTC. It's cheaper because I'm paying for what I use, not
zones 5 and 6 on the three sides of london I hardly ever go to!

This scheme is the same - if's like asking for a taxi from point a to b and
being told you have to carry on (and pay) for travel to point c because it
"makes the fares simpler".

Sure there will be winners and losers but it has to be fairer with the
current pence per mile system. With zones the winners are not paying for
all they use, and the losers are paying for extra.

D

"tim(yet another new home)" wrote in message
...

How can you, or can't you, track your usage on Oyster PAYG? All I find is
that I'm emailed when I get topped-up; I have looked on the website, but
can't find anything to help. Do I just have to track my own journeys and
see whether they (sort of) match the cost?

Have you 'created an account'?

Yes, I've had an account ever since I got the card a year ago.. and Yes,
looking again today, you're quite right!! There's a "travel history" button
in there.. And a very interesting record it is too..

Now I feel really stupid - but I'm absolutely sure it wasn't there when I
looked for exactly this a few months ago..

Thanks

--
Walter Mann

embers25 wrote:
[Phil Richards:]
Will zonal rail tickets show origin/destination stations like they do at
present and therefore a return be A to B & back to A only? Or could I
buy a Zone 1 to 5 Rail only CDR say to go from Victoria to East Croydon
and later in the day Bromley South back to Victoria?

www.nationalrail.co.uk confirms that although zonal tickets will be
issued they will still be point to point and I quote "We are
considering whether in future we could make buying tickets in London
simpler still by offering tickets to specific zonal destinations.
However at present this is not practical." Surely it's easy to make
pratical if the tube can. Basically the system will simplify fares
without the zonal travel flexibility and so in the short term just
means fare raises of untold proportions for most people...a real "win"
for everyone! If this was a truly zonal system this would have been
great.

Exactly. I cannot think of any reason whatsoever why zonal destinations
are not practical. Looking at the last National Fares Manuals that I
had (NFM 80 from 2002, when it was my job to keep up with things),
Wimbledon, for instance, had day single and return fares defined to
"ZONE U1 LONDON" (zone 1) up to "ZONE U1256 LONDON", which is exactly
what we would need for a truly zonal system. If the objection is the
inability to set routes or allow/deny particular transport modes, the
geography and history of London's rail network aren't going to go away
and a decision simply needs to be taken now to remove these distinctions.

To introduce "simple" zonal fares without zones and still only usable on
National Rail seems like a clever way of increasing fares by, in my
case, 35%. Get rid of the rail only fares and issue to zonal
destinations, and we have a proper, simple system and one where people
may easier stomach the rises because they can see the benefits.

It does not "pave the way" for pre-pay - the fares need not be
introduced until the day pre-pay becomes available (I would hope that it
is on *one* day). This way they get the money and we keep the queueing
for tickets.

Richard.

I wonder why TravelWatch consider that "complexity is reduced
significantly"? Unless the fares are marketed as zonal, which it
seems they cannot be completely, I'm not sure how the average
passenger will notice a difference.

I'm not sure Travelwatch have understood this correctly. When I heard the
news I thought it sounded like another excuse to raise fares and from the
couple I've calculated it does seem that way.

How the TOC calculate the fare is of little interest to me, just whether I
think it's value to travel. They use a computer to do it and just because I
can sit at home and work it out doesn't help at all.

When this smart ticketing system goes nationwide are they going to zone
everything then?

D

The cheap day return fares are completely pointless though as a travelcard
would be cheaper. So the actual price would be £4.90 for CJ-FP and £6..30 for
Orp-WH.

Clapham Junction - Finsbury Park should really be £4.30 - a Z2-6 ODTC
(CJ to Highbury and Islington - perhaps changing at Willesden X, then
Victoria Line)

Thinking about this, rolling out PAYG on to NR services will cause all
manner of "valid route" confusion in terms of zones crossed: I know
this has been discussed before with respect to *some* tube routes, but
there would be far greater potential for dispute with the orbital rail
services, even as they are at the moment (let alone in 5 years, if the
current plans are realised).

For instance: Richmond to Maida Vale (do you have to go through Z1)?

Jase

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:53:52 +0100, Richard wrote:

embers25 wrote:
[Phil Richards:]
Will zonal rail tickets show origin/destination stations like they do at
present and therefore a return be A to B & back to A only? Or could I
buy a Zone 1 to 5 Rail only CDR say to go from Victoria to East Croydon
and later in the day Bromley South back to Victoria?

www.nationalrail.co.uk confirms that although zonal tickets will be
issued they will still be point to point and I quote "We are
considering whether in future we could make buying tickets in London
simpler still by offering tickets to specific zonal destinations.
However at present this is not practical." Surely it's easy to make
pratical if the tube can. Basically the system will simplify fares
without the zonal travel flexibility and so in the short term just
means fare raises of untold proportions for most people...a real "win"
for everyone! If this was a truly zonal system this would have been
great.

Exactly. I cannot think of any reason whatsoever why zonal destinations
are not practical. Looking at the last National Fares Manuals that I
had (NFM 80 from 2002, when it was my job to keep up with things),
Wimbledon, for instance, had day single and return fares defined to
"ZONE U1 LONDON" (zone 1) up to "ZONE U1256 LONDON", which is exactly
what we would need for a truly zonal system. If the objection is the
inability to set routes or allow/deny particular transport modes, the
geography and history of London's rail network aren't going to go away
and a decision simply needs to be taken now to remove these distinctions.

To introduce "simple" zonal fares without zones and still only usable on
National Rail seems like a clever way of increasing fares by, in my
case, 35%. Get rid of the rail only fares and issue to zonal
destinations, and we have a proper, simple system and one where people
may easier stomach the rises because they can see the benefits.

It does not "pave the way" for pre-pay - the fares need not be
introduced until the day pre-pay becomes available (I would hope that it
is on *one* day). This way they get the money and we keep the queueing
for tickets.

Richard.

Did you not read the press release? Fares are not - on average -
increasing.

A