I see this journey is no longer available in the NR Journey planner after 09
Dec 06.

I know that there is a need to close the line at some date 'no sooner than
01 Nov 06', presumably the timetable change date has now been confirmed, and
the following links show the 'proposals'....

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/...nt.php?id=2081

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/...nt.php?id=2085

Do the formal closure procedures now also require notices at stations etc,
or can the service just be amended out of the public timetable?

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

I see this journey is no longer available in the NR Journey planner after 09
Dec 06.

I know that there is a need to close the line at some date 'no sooner than
01 Nov 06', presumably the timetable change date has now been confirmed, and
the following links show the 'proposals'....

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/...nt.php?id=2081

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/...nt.php?id=2085

Do the formal closure procedures now also require notices at stations etc,
or can the service just be amended out of the public timetable?

Paul


I can't give you a thorough answer but I can provide some background
information.

As you possibly know already 10 December is the date when the GB
railway timetable change happens - the NLL Stratford to North Woolwich
service didn't have to be withdrawn when the timetable change happens,
but it's a convenient, 'natural' break point.

The second Travelwatch page you give (id=2085) - the proposed closures
notice on a teal background - was displayed as a poster at all North
London Line (NLL) stations in November/December 2005.

On a fairly recent journey on the NLL from Custom House to Stratford I
looked out for but didn't see any information about the withdrawal of
service. Perhaps that's changed - I'd imagine Silverlink is obliged to
put up some kind of notice near the time, and it would be common
courtesy for them to do so to anyway! I may be down that way later this
week - if so I'll look out for any new information on display.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...

As you possibly know already 10 December is the date when the GB
railway timetable change happens - the NLL Stratford to North Woolwich
service didn't have to be withdrawn when the timetable change happens,
but it's a convenient, 'natural' break point.

The second Travelwatch page you give (id=2085) - the proposed closures
notice on a teal background - was displayed as a poster at all North
London Line (NLL) stations in November/December 2005.

On a fairly recent journey on the NLL from Custom House to Stratford I
looked out for but didn't see any information about the withdrawal of
service. Perhaps that's changed - I'd imagine Silverlink is obliged to
put up some kind of notice near the time, and it would be common
courtesy for them to do so to anyway! I may be down that way later this
week - if so I'll look out for any new information on display.

I was on the section between Canning Town and Stratford a few weeks ago too,
again nothing to see. There never seems to be an intermediate stage where
they 'announce' the decision that has been made following the 'proposal'.

Paul

In message , Paul Scott
writes
I was on the section between Canning Town and Stratford a few weeks ago too,
again nothing to see. There never seems to be an intermediate stage where
they 'announce' the decision that has been made following the 'proposal'.

Would I be jumped on for saying Silverlink never cared too much about
the Canning Town to Woolwich part anyway? They rarely put forthcoming
engineering announcements or special timetables out even when it
affected stations the immediate section of the line.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

Paul G wrote:
In message , Paul Scott
writes
I was on the section between Canning Town and Stratford a few weeks ago too,
again nothing to see. There never seems to be an intermediate stage where
they 'announce' the decision that has been made following the 'proposal'.

Would I be jumped on for saying Silverlink never cared too much about
the Canning Town to Woolwich part anyway? They rarely put forthcoming
engineering announcements or special timetables out even when it
affected stations the immediate section of the line.


Its a great shame that a useful rail link is being closed. When I
travel on it, it often seems fairly full, certainly there are less well
used routes.

The main problem is it has been ignored. The Canning Town interchange
hasn't been encouraged. The fact that Silver Town is almost on top of
the airport, was never really made clear (its closer than many stations
are to their airports in terms of distance).

The replacement is a toy railway that resembles a switchback when
riding it (even the Victoria line is more comfortable a ride), which
does not have through routes to North London (useful for me and many
others), and which is rather slow. Not encouraging.

Francis

wrote:
Its a great shame that a useful rail link is being closed. When I
travel on it, it often seems fairly full, certainly there are less well
used routes.

The main problem is it has been ignored. The Canning Town interchange
hasn't been encouraged. The fact that Silver Town is almost on top of
the airport, was never really made clear (its closer than many stations
are to their airports in terms of distance).

The replacement is a toy railway that resembles a switchback when
riding it (even the Victoria line is more comfortable a ride), which
does not have through routes to North London (useful for me and many
others), and which is rather slow. Not encouraging.

Francis

It is also useful to some that one can carry a bicycle on Silverlink
but not on the DLR.

wrote in
ups.com:

Its a great shame that a useful rail link is being closed. When I
travel on it, it often seems fairly full, certainly there are less
well used routes.
SNIP


I agree with you 100%. Though word of warning, when I made this comment
here a few months back I got flamed to buggery :-)) The
"Slitherlink" doesn't appear to have too many fans on UTL for some
reason.

The worse thing is that it's going to take a while for the Stratford to
City Airport DLR to be completed, meaning that for those living near eg
Hackney Central, they would need to get the Silverlink to Stratford, the
Jubilee to Canning Town and the DLR to City Airport.

Personally, as a local resident, I'd have liked them improve the
Silverlink service throughout the entire line (which they're going to
be doing anyway between Richmond and Stratford) and dispense with the
DLR idea from Stratford to Canning Town altogether.

(a) it's not needed what with the Jubilee and the Silverlink, and West
Ham underground station serves the population well enough re those who
live on eg Abbey Road.

(b) by not building it, and simply having more trains on the Silverlink,
people will not have to change trains if going from eg Canning Town to
Camden, or Hackney to Silvertown (City Airport). Or rather, they CAN
change in Canning Town to the DLR (providing they don't have a bike).
And there will be no "downtime".

Changing trains with luggage isn't always a good idea anyway.

Also, another bit of history down the pan. I know I came out with all
this ******** when the Shoreditch bit of the ELL closed, but it's true.
Always sad to see lines and routes disappear, even if they are going to
be replaced a few years later by a shiny driverless version.

I recently read "Maid in West Ham", a sweet autobiography about a young
girl growing up in the Cody Road area of Canning Town during World War
II, near the railway lines.
http://www.britishexpat.com/History_...In_W.61.0.html

It's all changing.....

now, where's my slippers..........

Are we forgetting this section is supposed to be used by Crossrail?

wrote:
Its a great shame that a useful rail link is being closed. When I
travel on it, it often seems fairly full, certainly there are less well
used routes.

It's not useful. It has far too little capacity and runs through some
less than modern areas of southeast London. The DLR on the other hand
has far more capacity to run a proper service to serve the airport, and
has the advantage of providing a direct connection to the City and a
single-change connection to Canary Wharf, whereas the NLL only goes to
Stratford and beyond. The demographics of the area suggest that most
people want to go elsewhere in Docklands, not to Hackney.


The main problem is it has been ignored. The Canning Town interchange
hasn't been encouraged. The fact that Silver Town is almost on top of
the airport, was never really made clear (its closer than many stations
are to their airports in terms of distance).

The reason why is because Silvertown is a dump. No air passenger would
want to use Silvertown station to go to the airport, because the area
doesn't feel safe.


The replacement is a toy railway that resembles a switchback when
riding it (even the Victoria line is more comfortable a ride), which
does not have through routes to North London (useful for me and many
others), and which is rather slow. Not encouraging.

It's not a toy railway, it's an intermediate-mode transport system that
provides far more mobility, capacity and utility than a heavy rail
line. I for one am glad that the DLR went to King George V.

Tristán White wrote:
I agree with you 100%. Though word of warning, when I made this comment
here a few months back I got flamed to buggery :-)) The
"Slitherlink" doesn't appear to have too many fans on UTL for some
reason.

I'm not a fan of it mainly because it's so run-down, dirty and
obviously uncared for. Had TfL taken over the NLL early on and cleaned
it up, I'll bet there would be more people wondering why the NLL was
being replaced.


The worse thing is that it's going to take a while for the Stratford to
City Airport DLR to be completed, meaning that for those living near eg
Hackney Central, they would need to get the Silverlink to Stratford, the
Jubilee to Canning Town and the DLR to City Airport.

This is what I don't understand - you (and others) keep going on about
how everyone on this part of the NLL wants to go to and from Hackney.
Why?!?

I would have thought that people living in this area would only want to
go as far as Stratford, or west to Canary Wharf and Poplar, or even to
Bank. I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that there are
signficant flows to and from Hackney (or further) along this part of
the NLL.


Personally, as a local resident, I'd have liked them improve the
Silverlink service throughout the entire line (which they're going to
be doing anyway between Richmond and Stratford) and dispense with the
DLR idea from Stratford to Canning Town altogether.

I partially agree with this, but only because I'm not sure that the
three new stations being put in on the DLR route are going to prevent
it from duplicating the Jubilee between Canning Town and Stratford.

But you should also keep in mind that this link also allows the service
to City Airport and Beckton (and later Woolwich) to be substantially
enhanced - right now both services are constrained by the junctions at
Poplar and the double track section between Poplar and Canning Town. By
replacing the NLL with a DLR route to Stratford International, at a
bare minimum both branches will get double the number of trains they
currently do. This, at least, is one of the reasons why building this
project is a good idea.


(a) it's not needed what with the Jubilee and the Silverlink, and West
Ham underground station serves the population well enough re those who
live on eg Abbey Road.

Yet the lack of NLL trains means that everyone takes the Jubilee, which
fills it up and overloads it. Having the parallel route might help
relieve the Jubilee of local traffic, allowing it to carry
longer-distance traffic into Docklands and beyond.


(b) by not building it, and simply having more trains on the Silverlink,
people will not have to change trains if going from eg Canning Town to
Camden, or Hackney to Silvertown (City Airport). Or rather, they CAN
change in Canning Town to the DLR (providing they don't have a bike).
And there will be no "downtime".

Again, I am genuinely curious as to whether or not there really are
people doing these types of journeys, and if so, if there are enough of
them that replacing the NLL with the DLR will force them to change
modes.


Changing trains with luggage isn't always a good idea anyway.

That could be said for any interchange.