Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.

I have to ponder what on earth is going on in the hallowed corridors of
the DfT these days!

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.

I have to ponder what on earth is going on in the hallowed corridors of
the DfT these days!

I think it's a matter of delivery. Nottingham have managed to deliver a
successful tram system without constantly asking for more money, and
have managed to integrate it into the bus network. Other cities fail to
manage their projects properly and their figures seem to inflate every
quarter, damaging their business case. Either that, or the local
authorities can't agree properly on what they want (Bristol, Liverpool).
Some cities also seem quite unwilling to take on risk when it is plainly
obvious quite how much risk there is given the regular budget rewrites.

Saying that, the DfT end is probably equally crazy.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.
As said by Dave it's a matter of delivery.

I also think it's important that - to make any real difference - tram
systems need to be a network rather than just a single route. The
Nottingham and West Midlands systems, although successful as far as they
go, can't make much improvement to local transport in the way that
Sheffield or Manchester can, even though the former are well integrated
to other local transport and the latter by and large aren't.

NET is one of the best of the modern UK (and dare I say it European)
tramway systems. Seeing it expanded can only a be a Good Thing.

I would like to see some extensions and improvements to Midland Metro,
though. New (decent) trams and the Birmingham City Centre extension
would be a good starting point.

To return to a London topic, Croydon and the DLR also show the greater
usefulness of "networks".

I wonder what will happen next?!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.
As said by Dave it's a matter of delivery.

I also think it's important that - to make any real difference - tram
systems need to be a network rather than just a single route. The
Nottingham and West Midlands systems, although successful as far as they
go, can't make much improvement to local transport in the way that
Sheffield or Manchester can, even though the former are well integrated
to other local transport and the latter by and large aren't.

NET is one of the best of the modern UK (and dare I say it European)
tramway systems. Seeing it expanded can only a be a Good Thing.

I would like to see some extensions and improvements to Midland Metro,
though. New (decent) trams and the Birmingham City Centre extension
would be a good starting point.

To return to a London topic, Croydon and the DLR also show the greater
usefulness of "networks".

Indeed, Croydon's public switching from a partly anti-tram feeling to a
very supportive feeling now, and with extensive lobbying by other south
London boroughs for extensions into their territory - on-street, no
less. Unfortunately, of the four proposed extensions, only one can be
taken forward at the current time, and there's a reasonable certainty
that it'll be Crystal Palace - of the four, probably the cheapest,
easiest and least disruptive of them all (almost a "quick win").

Trams are certainly alive elsewhere in London too with a high
probability of delivery. I think that Cross River Tram has a better
chance of delivery than West London - the former has very strong levels
of support from the public and other organisations alike, takes
advantage of roadspace released by congestion charging, would be
extremely well-used and would make getting jobs in central London much
easier for some deprived bits of inner south London.

Saying that, I was shown a diagram a few weeks ago which compared the
annual patronage of each of London's busiest bus routes with that of
light rail systems around the country. The 207/607 - with 23m passengers
per year - beat all but two light rail systems (DLR with 50m and Tyne &
Wear Metro with 37m).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:54:35 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.

I have to ponder what on earth is going on in the hallowed corridors of
the DfT these days!

I doubt the good citizens of Manc are that ****ed off given that
Metrolink was awarded a not dissimilar amount of money (£512m IIRC).
Unfortunately, they're getting a lot less for the half-billion than
previously expected (and the rest will have to be funded from
Transport Innovation Fund/road-user charging). For those of us who
won't benefit it's a shame the GMPTE isn't so active in trying to get
money to sort out the appalling bus system in Manchester. Instead of
sitting there whinging about regulation they should be kicking the
collective arses of the local authorities to put more bus priority in
and to get Manchester to actually bother to develop something
resembling a city centre movement strategy.

/rant

Dave Arquati wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
Not London so apologies for Off Topic but uk.transport seems to be full
of moaning motorists!

To my great shock and surprise it seems that Nottingham has been given
£400+m to go and build two new lines as part of the NET system.

I imagine people in Manchester, South Hampshire and Leeds are a tad
****ed off. I'm pleased for Nottingham that they've got through the
funding and approval maze with relative ease and speed but it really
sends out some very odd messages as to what on earth the national policy
is on Light Rail.

I have to ponder what on earth is going on in the hallowed corridors of
the DfT these days!

I think it's a matter of delivery. Nottingham have managed to deliver a
successful tram system without constantly asking for more money, and
have managed to integrate it into the bus network. Other cities fail to
manage their projects properly and their figures seem to inflate every
quarter, damaging their business case. Either that, or the local
authorities can't agree properly on what they want (Bristol, Liverpool).
Some cities also seem quite unwilling to take on risk when it is plainly
obvious quite how much risk there is given the regular budget rewrites.

Saying that, the DfT end is probably equally crazy.



Relating this to conversations in another thread about TfL's ability to
deliver with particular regard to the NLL / London Overground, perhaps
one can come up with the rather obvious point that the wary (and weary)
DfT really rates those projects where local delivery is strong, and
thus has confidence in backing them.

I've said before I think it's a great shame that the no vote in the
North-East put a stop to a possible future of strong regional
government with a firm grasp on transport. Nonetheless where there's a
will there's a way, it's just that the basics needs to be in place on a
local level - a strong alliance of local authoroties with a firm sense
of purpose and the right structures to campaign for and manage such
projects.

That said, I don't work for WYPTE so I'm not banging my head against a
brick wall everyday.

thus has confidence in backing them.

I've said before I think it's a great shame that the no vote in the
North-East put a stop to a possible future of strong regional
government with a firm grasp on transport. Nonetheless where there's a
will there's a way, it's just that the basics needs to be in place on a
local level - a strong alliance of local authoroties with a firm sense
of purpose and the right structures to campaign for and manage such
projects.


Certainly it never seemed to occur to the people who run the Tyne and Wear Metro that they might put on extra services to the Sunderland Air Show which is if you believe tham the biggest show in Europe and attracts Millions of locals.

Contrast with Dresden. Museum Night July 2006. museums open till 1.00
am
Extra night trams (15 minutes instead of hourly)
and a revised timetable in every tram stop.
Why cant we do the same?
HTH Phil