"Earl Purple" wrote in message
oups.com...

d wrote:
If one's exit is not clear (as in the example above), one is at fault for
entering the box junction. That's the whole idea of them. When there is
obviously stopped traffic ahead, drivers *should* drive over one car at a
time. Drivers should only enter when they can see enough space past the
junction for them to fit in to. Anything else should result in a ticket


Assuming that the box like most is at a set of traffic lights, if
traffic only crossed one at a time, i.e. one in the box at the time,
you would not get the correct flow through the traffic light.

That there is space ahead for both the driver in front and yourself
should be enough reason to allow you to progress across behind them.
Now if they decide to stop just in front of the box instead of moving
ahead into the space available to them, they have caused you to block
needlessly.

No, going when you can't see space for you on the other side is needlessly
blocking the junction. If traffic is stop-start, as it would be in such a
situation, sending one car over the junction at a time is the only way to
ensure the junction is not blocked, as blocking the junction screws up
everyone else. When driving you can't assume anything.

In traffic queueing situations it is totally wrong to leave an
excessive gap between you and the vehicle in front. The highway code
tells you not to. But so many do and it really really annoys me when
the person in front of me is doing that.

The highway code also tells you to not block box junctions... Two wrongs
don't make a right.

No, going when you can't see space for you on the other side is
needlessly blocking the junction. If traffic is stop-start, as it
would be in such a situation, sending one car over the junction at a
time is the only way to ensure the junction is not blocked, as
blocking the junction screws up everyone else. When driving you
can't assume anything.

Obviously when traffic is stop-start you don't enter the box junction until
you can leave it. But if traffic moving at full speed across box junctions
refused to enter until their exit was clear, the capacity of the road
network would be slashed, and gridlock would result, the very thing that box
junctions are supposed to prevent.

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

No, going when you can't see space for you on the other side is
needlessly blocking the junction. If traffic is stop-start, as it
would be in such a situation, sending one car over the junction at a
time is the only way to ensure the junction is not blocked, as
blocking the junction screws up everyone else. When driving you
can't assume anything.

Obviously when traffic is stop-start you don't enter the box junction
until you can leave it. But if traffic moving at full speed across box
junctions refused to enter until their exit was clear, the capacity of the
road network would be slashed, and gridlock would result, the very thing
that box junctions are supposed to prevent.

Which is what I said

d wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

Obviously when traffic is stop-start you don't enter the box junction
until you can leave it. But if traffic moving at full speed across box
junctions refused to enter until their exit was clear, the capacity of the
road network would be slashed, and gridlock would result, the very thing
that box junctions are supposed to prevent.

Which is what I said

No you said you shouldn't enter the box until the driver in front has
exited because then your exit is not clear.

If the traffic is flowing but not at such a speed that the box covers
the 2-second gap you should continue across in a normal manner.

I was referring to a situation where the driver in front clears the box
then stops needlessly leaving you stranded.

Now if the rules were enforced via officers at the scene, they might
use common sense. But as long as it is enforced by automatic cameras,
it is obvious which driver would be penalised.

Earl Purple wrote:
d wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in
message ...

Obviously when traffic is stop-start you don't enter the box
junction until you can leave it. But if traffic moving at full
speed across box junctions refused to enter until their exit was
clear, the capacity of the road network would be slashed, and
gridlock would result, the very thing that box junctions are
supposed to prevent.

Which is what I said

No you said you shouldn't enter the box until the driver in front has
exited because then your exit is not clear.

If the traffic is flowing but not at such a speed that the box covers
the 2-second gap you should continue across in a normal manner.

I was referring to a situation where the driver in front clears the
box then stops needlessly leaving you stranded.

Now if the rules were enforced via officers at the scene, they might
use common sense. But as long as it is enforced by automatic cameras,
it is obvious which driver would be penalised.

I think it should be illegal to change lanes in a box junction, for similar
reasons.