On 27 Oct 2006 12:26:03 -0700, "
wrote:

sorry... having a few technical problems here.... :|

You work for LUL, right? You must be used to it!

Ah well thanks paul for confirming that... One thing I would LOVE to
know (to help my customers the best) is is the £4 charge 100%
universal (ie including zones A-D)? I ask because our posters say you
will be charged the "maximum cash fare" which, from Amersham for
example, is £6, not £4...

Any info you have will help to fill this small hole left by the info we
have received (which as usual forgets that we exist out in the country).

Ah well thanks paul for confirming that... One thing I would LOVE to
know (to help my customers the best) is is the £4 charge 100%
universal (ie including zones A-D)? I ask because our posters say you
will be charged the "maximum cash fare" which, from Amersham for
example, is £6, not £4...

Any info you have will help to fill this small hole left by the info we
have received (which as usual forgets that we exist out in the country).

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:35:01 +0100,
Paul Corfield wrote:

The £4 charge (or £5 for some specific journeys on NR interavailable
lines) on entry applies to people using PAYG *only*.


Does this mean that there will have to be 4GBP on the card even to make
a Z1 journey or will it still be 1.50GBP and the 3GBP deposit will allow
for it (same as today where you can make a Z1-Z6 journey with only
1.5GBP on the card)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.

I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Jase

wrote:
I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Its been answered somewhere around about here. If you touch in within
your valid zones, but fail to touch out, the system will assume you
stay within zones, you will not be charged.

If you fail to touch in, and touch out outside of your zones, you'll
pay £1 or £1.50 (the higher amount if its zone 1 you touch out).

If you touch in outside of zones, it will charge £1 or £1.50 as well.

So you're fine within zones, but if you touch in OR out outside of the
zones on your season ticket, you'll have this small charge.

wrote:
wrote:
I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

Its been answered somewhere around about here. If you touch in within
your valid zones, but fail to touch out, the system will assume you
stay within zones, you will not be charged.

If you fail to touch in, and touch out outside of your zones, you'll
pay £1 or £1.50 (the higher amount if its zone 1 you touch out).



Surely that's £4?

wrote:

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.


I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

It does not matter at all wether you touch out or not in case you have
touched in within the zones for which the travelcard on the Oyster card
is valid.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

It does not know that. It is exactly the same situation as for a paper
Travelcard, you can use it to get through fare gates within the zones
for which it is valid but in case you travel outside the zones covered
by the card it is your responsibility to have an extension ticket (in
the paper travelcard case) or touch out your Oyster card at your
desitination, even if there are no gates or gates are open there.

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
wrote:

*If* a Travelcard holder starts a journey and validates their card at a
station outside of their zonal validity then there will be a deduction
from their PAYG purse of £1 (starting at an origin in Z2-6D) or £1.50
(starting at an origin in Zone 1). At final exit the gate or validator
will determine if any more money needs to be deducted from PAYG for the
extension journey.


I know I asked this before but there was confusion about the answer. I
still don't understand what happens if you have a Travelcard (on
Oyster), touch in within your zones of validity but are unable to touch
out at the destination.

It does not matter at all wether you touch out or not in case you have
touched in within the zones for which the travelcard on the Oyster card
is valid.

Specifically, I am referring to the large number of people (myself
inc.) who have to touch in at Ealing Broadway (Z3), take the overground
to Paddington but cannot touch out there. How would the system know
that I didn't take the tube outside my zones of validity and failed to
touch out at the arrival station (and should therefore have a fare
deducted from my PAYG)?

It does not know that. It is exactly the same situation as for a paper
Travelcard, you can use it to get through fare gates within the zones
for which it is valid but in case you travel outside the zones covered
by the card it is your responsibility to have an extension ticket (in
the paper travelcard case) or touch out your Oyster card at your
desitination, even if there are no gates or gates are open there.


The extension ticket in the paper travelcard case is £4, generally
more than PAYG for the whole journey. So, in fact, you have to get out
of the train, go to the exit, touch in, go back and wait for another
train.

wrote:
Well today the posters went up all over the place about the changes
coming to how incomplete journeys are charged on pre-pay Oyster cards,
and most staff should by now have had some training on what's
happening. The whole thing starts from 19th November 2006 (apart from
the few stations who've had it already for a couple weeks, as a test)
and will affect anyone using pre-pay Oyster who doesn't touch in or out
correctly.

Basically for any journey that is not validated at start AND finish (by
touching on the yellow readers) you will be charged £4 (which is the
maximum cash price for a 1-6 single).

Any journeys in one day that this happens will NOT count towards your
cap, but will NOT, as at present, stop you getting a cap. For example,
you do 6 journeys in one day, around London, one of which is incomplete
for whatever reason. You will get the normal cap for 5 of the
journeys, PLUS £4 for the incomplete journey. If you have 2
incomplete journeys, it'll cost you £8 extra etc.

Contrary to previous comments, you will NOT be required to have a
minimum balance of £5 on your Oyster - you can still enter with the
minimum amount (£1 for most zones) on your card, which will go into a
negative balance as you enter, and be adjusted correctly as you exit
the network.

LU Ticket Offices will NOT be able to resolve these for you (as they
can at present) UNLESS it is due to a known event or problem (such as
gateline readers are not functional at the time of travel). You will
have to phone Oyster helpdesk to get it sorted.

As at present you cannot travel with a negative pre-pay balance, even
if you have a season ticket for the zone(s) you're in, so everyone must
be extra careful not to get these incomplete journeys - which is, after
all, one of the main reasons this is happening.

Customers carrying a season ticket (say a monthly zones 1-2 ticket)
will be charged for incomplete journeys, but at £1 or £1.50 for
journeys outside of zones, which is the same as at present.

Don't shoot the messenger....


Why are people meekly accepting this and asking technical questions?
The whole thing is totally f*cking outrageous. There is suppposed to
be a cap, but they now have a system that says "if we don't like you,
the cap doesn't apply" (and we don't like you if you don't jump through
our hoops, regardless of whether you have already been charged the
maximum for a day).

Has Michael O'Leary taken over from Ken Livingstone or something?

The tide is turning against the latter, and it is going to turn against
the Oyster thugs as well.