On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered? Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...

"Wanderer" wrote in message
...
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered?
Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly
entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to
get
some free legal advice that way.

The difficulty arises if the warden *has* entered the wrong date (eg the
date of a weekday) -

how easy is it to get the date wrong? are wardens able to post or pre date
tickets in this way? sound like trouble to me....would have thought it was
automatic or something.

"Wanderer" wrote in message
...
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered?
Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

The difficulty arises if the warden *has* entered the wrong date (eg the
date of a weekday) - how do you prove that you weren't parked there on that
weekday? You may be able to prove that you were somewhere else, but you may
not. Tricky. In any dispute, you could ask to see the warden's record of
tickets issued. I nearly got a ticket for staying longer than the permitted
time in a bay that allowed 2 hours free parking. Since I'd only been 1/2
hour, I was miffed to find a warden about to ticket me. Of course he
couldn't produce a record that he'd first noticed my car two hours ago, so
(with VERY bad grace) he wandered off. I should have taken the matter
further, but I was in a hurry to be somewhere else.

If the date is correct (Saturday) you should have no problem getting the
ticket cancelled. A grovelling apology from the warden would be a nice
bonus! ;-)

In article , Wanderer
writes
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered? Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

I suggest that is bad advice. Go to the Parking Manager at the council
concerned and if he will not do anything about this ticket (if all the
details you have given are correct and the bay wasn't suspended etc)
then go direct to the Parking Appeals service and if all you say is
correct the ticket should be quashed.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Wanderer
writes
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered? Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

I suggest that is bad advice. Go to the Parking Manager at the council
concerned and if he will not do anything about this ticket (if all the
details you have given are correct and the bay wasn't suspended etc)
then go direct to the Parking Appeals service and if all you say is
correct the ticket should be quashed.

The OP cannot "go direct" to the Parking Appeals Service in these circumstances.

He can only go to PATAS when the LA have issued a Notice to Owner AND he
has made subsequent representations to the LA within the time limit AND they
have rejected those representations.

I'm sure this case can be won on appeal, but the OP must be aware of and correctly
follow the statutory procedure in order to do so.


Robin

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:28:29 +0100, Andrew P Smith wrote:

In article , Wanderer
writes
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again... wrote:

Hi folks.

On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London
borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and
on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay
marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that
the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT
DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT".

Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100
fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within
14 days.

Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered? Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

I suggest that is bad advice. Go to the Parking Manager at the council
concerned and if he will not do anything about this ticket (if all the
details you have given are correct and the bay wasn't suspended etc)
then go direct to the Parking Appeals service and if all you say is
correct the ticket should be quashed.

Umm, asking if he's satified that everything about the ticket details are
correct is bad advice? Suggesting that he might be able to get legal advice
through either his motoring or household insurance is bad advice?

Reading other comments in the thread, the Parking Office is not obligated
to respond to his representations, and it's not unreasonable to suggest
that they are unlikely to be responsive before they issue the notice, given
that there is little opinion to the contrary. Yes, he can make his
representations as soon as he likes, but he's likely to get 4/5ths of Sweet
F.A. in response.

Wanderer writes
Are you satisfied that the details on the ticket are correctly entered? Has
the warden put the correct date down? If everything is correctly entered,
then I'd sit on it until you get the relevant notice to owner, but if
they're not then at best he could be acting dishonestly or fraudulently,
and I think I'd want a solicitor's opinion on that! Do you have a legal
assistance option on your car or house insurance? You might be able to get
some free legal advice that way.

I suggest that is bad advice. Go to the Parking Manager at the council
concerned and if he will not do anything about this ticket (if all the
details you have given are correct and the bay wasn't suspended etc)
then go direct to the Parking Appeals service and if all you say is
correct the ticket should be quashed.

Umm, asking if he's satified that everything about the ticket details
are correct is bad advice? Suggesting that he might be able to get
legal advice through either his motoring or household insurance is bad
advice?

The latter, yes - as it's merely wasting his time.

--
Dave

"Robin Cox" wrote in message
...

The OP cannot "go direct" to the Parking Appeals Service in these
circumstances.

He can only go to PATAS when the LA have issued a Notice to Owner AND he
has made subsequent representations to the LA within the time limit AND
they
have rejected those representations.

I'm sure this case can be won on appeal, but the OP must be aware of and
correctly
follow the statutory procedure in order to do so.


Robin

You've done this before, haven't you?:-)
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.

--
To reply direct, Remove NOSPAM and Replace with 21fun
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:06:37 GMT, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

The difficulty arises if the warden *has* entered the wrong date (eg the
date of a weekday) - how do you prove that you weren't parked there on
that
weekday?snip

If the wardens use electronic ticket issuing equipment (as the ones in
Milton Keynes do), one would hope the equipment would only issue
tickets dated with the date stored on the equipment, and that that
date would not be editable by the warden.

I suppose it could be a day out accidentally, mind...

As happenned at Baker Street about a year ago. My son bought a ticket that
was a day ahead and we never figured out why it didnt open the barriers. We
showed it to staff every time and nobody noticed (even the gate staff!)
until the way home that it was dated ahead.

"Steve Dulieu" wrote in message
...
You've done this before, haven't you?:-)

Yes, and I notched up another win at the adjudicators today, though it
was because the local authority (Ealing) wouldn't contest the case.


Robin