In message , Gordon Joly
writes
underlining again my theory that bus staff (in general) find passengers
an annoyance....

Number of times I have seen elderly people flying down the bus as the
bus driver does 0-60 in under 3 seconds I think they don't find them an
annoyance. They just aren't paid enough to give a ****.
L.U. Staff however are paid enough to give a **** but just find all
passengers an annoyance.
--
CJG

CJG writes
as the bus driver does 0-60 in under 3 seconds

Yeah, right.

--
Dave

Jeff Mowatt writes

I can tell you for one that I supported Ken Livingstone's campaign
financially purely in the hope that he would live up to the promise of
re-introducing conductors on all London routes Since this and a lot of
other improvements didn't happen and a lot of excuses have been made, I've
come to regard our Mayor as a bit of a flake in more recent times.

Indeed, Ken did promise more conductors on buses. (I know that London
Buses purchased Routemasters for refurbishment and re-use, although I
can't remember if that was pre-GLA or not.) Use of conductors on
'conventional' buses was tried and failed.

So what does he do, press on with the conductors-policy even though it's
shown to be no good - or try something else that will bring better
benefits? Most politicians would tend to be dogmatic and press on with
implementing a flawed policy (e.g. Maggie & her poll tax), I much prefer
a politician who takes the pragmatic course.

--
Dave

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:23:52 +0000 (UTC), "Jeff Mowatt"
wrote:

I can tell you for one that I supported Ken Livingstone's campaign
financially purely in the hope that he would live up to the promise of
re-introducing conductors on all London routes Since this and a lot of
other improvements didn't happen and a lot of excuses have been made, I've
come to regard our Mayor as a bit of a flake in more recent times.

Which other improvements haven't happened?

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Dave,

I'm not sure what you mean by "tried and failed" can you be more specific?
I'm only aware that since the 70's conductors have become almost extinct
excepting parhaps on routes like the 159 which travel through the most
congested parts of London.

From your description of a conventional bus, I imagine that your experience
doesn't go back too far. For me the Routemaster was the last of the
conventional buses before the "biscuit tins" began to appear in the early
70's. These were a complete disaster as they decided to do away with
conductors and install a turnstile system which jammed constantly, and the
driver would have to be getting out of his seat forever attempting to fix
the problem. Eventually these ticket machines were completely roped off.

Now back in the days of the Routemaster and it's RT predecessor which
incidentally still provides service in many other parts of the world, there
were queues for buses. Any conductor worth his salt would ensure that
passengers standing in the queue would be allowed on first. Buses always
stopped at compulsory stops and the conductor would check that passengers
were safely seated before instructing the driver to proceed. There were no
feet on seats or passengers sneaking on the back to avoid paying fares and I
can't recall ever being in the situation where a bus had been brought to a
standstill due to an all out brawl or robbery on the top deck. I wish I
could say the same today.

Even today if you take a look at the windows on a bus, although it can be
seen to some degree on all of them, the ones with the windows graffitied to
near opacity are the modern kind that don't have conductors. Can you see
these buses getting anywhere near the 45 odd years service that Routemasters
have provided so far? We pay immense amounts of money to replenish and
refurbished vandalised buses and something as short sighted as removing
conductors in the interests of economy astonishes quite a few of us that
knew the "good old days" before anti-social behaviour, seemingly sanctioned
by LT, began to make buses dirty, uncomfortable and intimidating.

Now if this was what you meant by tried and failed, quite frankly I just
can't see what better benefits there could be.

Jeff Mowatt





"Dave" wrote in message
...
Jeff Mowatt writes

I can tell you for one that I supported Ken Livingstone's campaign
financially purely in the hope that he would live up to the promise of
re-introducing conductors on all London routes Since this and a lot of
other improvements didn't happen and a lot of excuses have been made,
I've
come to regard our Mayor as a bit of a flake in more recent times.

Indeed, Ken did promise more conductors on buses. (I know that London
Buses purchased Routemasters for refurbishment and re-use, although I
can't remember if that was pre-GLA or not.) Use of conductors on
'conventional' buses was tried and failed.

So what does he do, press on with the conductors-policy even though it's
shown to be no good - or try something else that will bring better
benefits? Most politicians would tend to be dogmatic and press on with
implementing a flawed policy (e.g. Maggie & her poll tax), I much prefer
a politician who takes the pragmatic course.

--
Dave

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:33:08 +0000 (UTC), "Jeff Mowatt"
wrote:


Now back in the days of the Routemaster and it's RT predecessor which
incidentally still provides service in many other parts of the world, there
were queues for buses. Any conductor worth his salt would ensure that
passengers standing in the queue would be allowed on first. Buses always
stopped at compulsory stops and the conductor would check that passengers
were safely seated before instructing the driver to proceed. There were no
feet on seats or passengers sneaking on the back to avoid paying fares and I
can't recall ever being in the situation where a bus had been brought to a
standstill due to an all out brawl or robbery on the top deck. I wish I
could say the same today.


Been on a Routemaster recently? You'll be lucky if the conductor
wanders away from his book on the platform.

Rob.l
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Use of conductors on
'conventional' buses was tried and failed.

Why? My experience was that the conductors (mostly women) stood at the front
and flirted with the driver (mostly men) throughout the whole journey, and
wouldn't let anyone pass them without buying a ticket. So the failure was
not in the policy, but in management failure to train/discipline/choose the
right staff. This problem obviously cannot occur on routemasters, because
the driver is sealed away from the conductor: maybe sealing the driver away
from the conductor would enable conductors to work on any bus.

What happened about Routemistress, or whatever the replacement was to be
called? Or is the bendibus the result of that project?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

That's true, they aren't what they used to be!.

Jeff

Been on a Routemaster recently? You'll be lucky if the conductor
wanders away from his book on the platform.

Rob.l
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Well, apart from the comfort and safety issues I've already mentioned
there's what John has beaten me to bringing up, the "Bendy bus" and "Son of
Routemaster"



"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:23:52 +0000 (UTC), "Jeff Mowatt"
wrote:

I can tell you for one that I supported Ken Livingstone's campaign
financially purely in the hope that he would live up to the promise of
re-introducing conductors on all London routes Since this and a lot of
other improvements didn't happen and a lot of excuses have been made,
I've
come to regard our Mayor as a bit of a flake in more recent times.

Which other improvements haven't happened?

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Jeff Mowatt writes

I can tell you for one that I supported Ken Livingstone's campaign
financially purely in the hope that he would live up to the promise
of re-introducing conductors on all London routes Since this and a
lot of other improvements didn't happen and a lot of excuses have
come to regard our Mayor as a bit of a flake in more recent times.

Which other improvements haven't happened?

Well, apart from the comfort and safety issues I've already mentioned
there's what John has beaten me to bringing up, the "Bendy bus" and "Son of
Routemaster"

[Please don't quote upside-down]

Safety - more revenue inspection personnel and a greater Police presence
on buses.

Comfort - what you mentioned was passenger discourtesy, not much that
Ken can do about that.

Bendy buses - not sure what your point is here. Are you saying they are
a good thing, bad thing, they premised to introduce more of them, etc.
There are plenty of them in operation now on Red Arrow routes 507/521
plus other routes that have been 'split' (436, 453/N453). Route 18 is
due to get them in the Autumn and 149 by next Spring.

Son of Routemaster - well you'll have to tell me about that.

--
Dave