This is my first post on this group, and I wonder if someone here might
advise me..
I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass. My disability means I
cannot actually use public transport.. This is a miserable waste
really, when all I would ideally require are some travel vouchers for
my carer so he can come and help me.
Anyway, in September I had to leave my carer in Rickmansworth to find
his own way back to derbys, where he lives.. He usually travels home
from edgware. and he is completely unfamiliar in that area.
I gave him my ticket to use, as I dont use it myself, and He is also
disabled and doesnt have the money to afford the extra fare, so I gave
him the ticket to save him money.
He got stopped at Kings Cross by some revenue inspector, who took his
details, he just agreed with what the inspector said as he didnt want
to be detained and miss his connecting train to derbys, for which he
had a ticket prepaid. He couldnt have afforded to pay another
trainfare. He did have enough spare change on him to purchase a ticket
but wasnt asked to.
He has subsequently received a court summons,
He will plead guilty, to avoid hassle, but he isnt guilty because I
told him he could use my ticket, and he being from up north didnt know
any different.
I do not want him to get a criminal conviction or huge fine because he
doesnt deserve it. He makes the effort to travel 150 miles twice
monthly to check Im OK, and I have no one else to care for me. all this
despite having a seriuos illness himself. He has never been convicted
of any crime, and yet wasnt evengiven the opportunity to simply pay a
penalty fare. He is not a habitual lawbreaker, or some yobbo who tried
to run from the inspectors. and this matter is ruining his health even
more.. The court have only given him 1 week notice before the case,
which is pretty ****e, so we have no time to get proper advice. and he
doesnt want to actually attend court, because I cannot get to Wimbledon
to give evidence.
As I said. he was technically guilty, because he used my pass, but the
fact remains he didnt know he couldnt use it.. I told him he could
because its a disabled pass and he is disabled.
any ideas what we can do?

ruth

ruth wrote:

I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass.
I gave him my ticket to use
He got stopped at Kings Cross by some revenue inspector
He has subsequently received a court summons,

[irrelevant sob story snipped]

He isnt guilty because I told him he could use my ticket, and he being from up
north didnt know any different.

How did you work that out? He is guilty. He was caught with someone
else's pass. Your freedom pass was issued to you for your use. It is
non transferable. That means nobody else can legally use it. Being from
"up north" makes no difference.

From the conditions of use on the London Councils website:-

2. Freedom pass remains the property of Transport for London and is not
transferable. It may only be used by the holder whose name appears on the front and may not be used by anyone else.

They actually repeat this at the bottom of the page:-

The freedom pass and photocard are for your personal use only and must not be used by anyone else.

And,

3. It is valid for travel only with a photocard bearing the same name. Both
freedom pass and photocard must be shown to ticket checking staff. They must
be produced for inspection on each journey whether demanded or not.

I take it you didn't give him your photocard, I expect that was because
you knew that would give the game away.

I do not want him to get a criminal conviction or huge fine because he
doesnt deserve it.

Yes he does. He was caught fair and square trying to defraud TfL. He
even admits it. You should have thought of that before you set out to
defraud TfL He even had the money to pay the fare on him.

He makes the effort to travel 150 miles twice
monthly to check Im OK, and I have no one else to care for me.

Yeah yeah yeah. he sounds like a pal of yours rather than a 'carer'
anyway. How was he going to get your freedom pass back to you? By post?
Not the first time I bet.

As I said. he was technically guilty, because he used my pass, but the
fact remains he didnt know he couldnt use it.. I told him he could
because its a disabled pass and he is disabled.

You knew it was non-transferable, and you told him otherwise? He didn't
read it first? Maybe you should pay his fine then.

any ideas what we can do?

Pay the fine and don't try to bilk TfL again.

ruth wrote:

He will plead guilty, to avoid hassle, but he isnt guilty because I
told him he could use my ticket, and he being from up north didnt know
any different.

No, he's still guilty. That is not a defense.

I do not want him to get a criminal conviction or huge fine because he
doesnt deserve it.

Probably too late for that. The best you can do is to call up the
prosecuting agency (probably TfL?) and try to plead with them to drop
the prosecution somehow. I wouldn't hold out much hope though.

The court have only given him 1 week notice before the case,

It's one week before he has to make a plea. If he pleads not guilty, the
case will be adjourned for a trial at a future date.

which is pretty ****e, so we have no time to get proper advice.

Nonsense, criminal solicitors are available for consultation at very
short notice.

he was technically guilty, because he used my pass, but the
fact remains he didnt know he couldnt use it..

Do you think a magistrate would believe that? If so, then you can plead
not guilty. If not, you should plead guilty and add this information in
mitigation.

ruth wrote:
This is my first post on this group, and I wonder if someone here
might advise me..
I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass. My disability
means I cannot actually use public transport.. This is a miserable
waste really, when all I would ideally require are some travel
vouchers for my carer so he can come and help me.
Anyway, in September I had to leave my carer in Rickmansworth to
find his own way back to derbys, where he lives.. He usually
travels home from edgware. and he is completely unfamiliar in that
area.
I gave him my ticket to use, as I dont use it myself, and He is also
disabled and doesnt have the money to afford the extra fare, so I
gave him the ticket to save him money.

Doesn't have the money for the extra fare? Presumably you mean the
extra he should have paid to get to King's Cross St Pancras from
Rickmansworth instead of from Edgware. That's only 40p or 50p on Oyster
depending on time of day and day of the week. (I assume that if he's
hard up, he will have got an Oyster card to save money on his
twice-monthly trips.)

He got stopped at Kings Cross by some revenue inspector, who took
his details, he just agreed with what the inspector said as he
didnt want to be detained and miss his connecting train to derbys,
for which he had a ticket prepaid. He couldnt have afforded to pay
another trainfare. He did have enough spare change on him to
purchase a ticket but wasnt asked to.
He has subsequently received a court summons,
He will plead guilty, to avoid hassle, but he isnt guilty because I
told him he could use my ticket, and he being from up north didnt
know any different.

.... despite the fact that the Freedom Pass carried your name, and "valid
only with holder's photopass".

He is guilty and will have to pay a fine. If he can't attend court, a
letter explaining the circumstances and a grovelling apology might help.
A solicitor could advise on this if necessary.

If you really think that it's all your fault, you should pay his fine
for him. Your slur on the intelligence of people "up north" is uncalled
for.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"ruth" wrote in message
oups.com
| | This is my first post on this group, and I wonder if
| | someone here might advise me..
| | I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass. My
| | disability means I cannot actually use public
| | transport.. This is a miserable waste really, when all
| | I would ideally require are some travel vouchers for my
| | carer so he can come and help me.

Do not mind me asking but I thought someone disabled could take someone with
them at discount.


| | Anyway, in September I had to leave my carer in
| | Rickmansworth to find his own way back to derbys, where
| | he lives.. He usually travels home from edgware. and he
| | is completely unfamiliar in that area.
| | I gave him my ticket to use, as I dont use it myself,
| | and He is also disabled and doesnt have the money to
| | afford the extra fare, so I gave him the ticket to save
| | him money.
| | He got stopped at Kings Cross by some revenue
| | inspector, who took his details, he just agreed with
| | what the inspector said as he didnt want to be detained
| | and miss his connecting train to derbys, for which he
| | had a ticket prepaid. He couldnt have afforded to pay
| | another trainfare. He did have enough spare change on
| | him to purchase a ticket but wasnt asked to.
| | He has subsequently received a court summons,
| | He will plead guilty, to avoid hassle, but he isnt
| | guilty because I told him he could use my ticket, and
| | he being from up north didnt know any different.
| | I do not want him to get a criminal conviction or huge
| | fine because he doesnt deserve it.

That will not matter one iota, where is it being dealt with, a Petty
Sessional court ?

Magistrates ?

He makes the effort
| | to travel 150 miles twice monthly to check Im OK, and I
| | have no one else to care for me. all this despite
| | having a seriuos illness himself. He has never been
| | convicted of any crime, and yet wasnt evengiven the
| | opportunity to simply pay a penalty fare. He is not a
| | habitual lawbreaker, or some yobbo who tried to run
| | from the inspectors. and this matter is ruining his
| | health even more.. The court have only given him 1 week
| | notice before the case, which is pretty ****e, so we
| | have no time to get proper advice.

Get a solicitor and a medical letter off your doctor and get an ajournment.
At a court there is always a duty solicitor available for those without
legal advice. He needs to tell the court Usher when he checks in that he
requires to see the duty solicitor. This is normal practice, he/she will
then work out whether your carer can plead not guilty and get away with it,
and will therefore ask for an adjournment.


and he doesnt want
| | to actually attend court, because I cannot get to
| | Wimbledon to give evidence.

You can write a letter which can be produced by the defense for the
magistrates. Write a good letter as to this mans character and it will help
him in court. Magistrates are very sympathetic to this sort of thing.

| | As I said. he was technically guilty, because he used
| | my pass, but the fact remains he didnt know he couldnt
| | use it.


He must say as he is disabled himself he could see no harm at all.


.. I told him he could because its a disabled
| | pass and he is disabled.
| | any ideas what we can do?
| |

You must play on your disability and also must your carer. Tell your doctor
that you have been suffering with anxiety and depression and a lack of
sleep. Tell your carer to make out his nerves were bad and that he felt he
was having a nervous breakdown.

I once knew a teacher who had a breakdown and was blagging his way on trains
due to his illness. The court will take this into consideration, it is
really nothing to worry about.

It is possible to plead not guilty to an offense like this and escape
without a criminal record. What he will get is a binding over to keep the
peace or conditional discharge as long as the complainant is reimbursed.
This would be agreed upon as it is only trivial, he has no criminal record
and it will save a lot of time.

| | ruth

Do not worry about this because it is nothing, just get a solicitor for your
friend and apply for legal aid, the solicitor will do that for you.



--
"A horse a horse my kingdom for a horse, I haven't had a winner in six
months".

MD
www.ukip.org/

"Mad Dog anti EU" typed


Do not mind me asking but I thought someone disabled could take
someone with
them at discount.

No such luck on TfL; my partner pays full whack with his Oyster.
My Mum goes free but this has nothing to do with my disability; she has
her own Freedom Pass.

On National Rail, the discount (1/3 off) with a Disabled Person's
Railcard also applies to an escort, so long as they travel together.

As my escort, Mum gets into art exhibitions at galleries free, while I
pay for a concessionary ticket.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Let's see: You attempted to commit a public fraud, by giving out your
pass. And your caregiver, attempted to travel without purchasing a
ticket for themselves. Why should you be allowed to break the rules,
when the rest of us are working so hard to change the rules to make
them work?

As someone who worked very hard over years to get them to issue passes
to the disabled, being one myself, I find your actions to be
unforgivable.

I assume that the person that caught your caregiver, retained your
pass. And that some action will be taken to determine if you gave it
away (illegal) or it was stolen (another strike against your
caregiver).

If your caregiver has a disability, then that person may have
qualified for their own pass. Have they attempted to get one of their
own? Where I live, the passes for permanent disabilities are free. For
those with a temporary disability, like a broken leg, there is a
minimal paperwork-fee.

And yes, "free" meant that I had to get into the inaccessible
transport office to get the form, get to my doctor, get back into the
inaccessible transport office and then wait almost a month for the
pass.

By your actions of "lending out" your pass, you've made it that much
more difficult for those of us that use and need them. For those of us
that can't utilize the more public mass transit, we have worked hard
to get a coach that goes door-to-door. This is also subsidized to be
less than public transit.

And planning a trip to any locale is such a pain, since there are so
few accessible routes and stations. And with kerbs being so tall, I
have often had to travel IN the streets, which is a battle all it's
own, so the struggle to make things more accessible continues.

"ruth" wrote in message
roups.com
| | This is my first post on this group, and I wonder if
| | someone here might advise me..
| | I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass. My
| | disability means I cannot actually use public
| | transport.. This is a miserable waste really, when all
| | I would ideally require are some travel vouchers for my
| | carer so he can come and help me.

This is not a slur on the intelligence of people from up north. I
merely stated that he doesnt know about freedom passes because, being
from up north they dont use them there.
and I did give him the photocard as well actually. he had both.
I gave him these because I think it is a waste of time having a freedom
pass that I cannot use as my disability stops me getting on public
transport. And he is only coming to help me it is doing more good. He
couldnt afford to come and help me on his own, and I have no local
carers or family.
Do not judge us as you do not know our situation, I have insulted no
one here, but get a load of nasty comments from people.
I think its personally disgusting that whilst the government wants to
waste £5000 plus giving me a ticket I cannot use, they would not
prefer to just give a few hundred pounds instead so my carer can get to
me with travel vouchers etc. or provide me with more local help.
but thats the council for you.. I told him that he could use it
because he is also disabled and has my permission. I cannot afford to
pay the fine as I have no income., although Im obviously better off
than he is.
Obviously people who can afford extortionate underground fares wouldnt
understand this.

ruth





If you really think that it's all your fault, you should pay his fine
for him. Your slur on the intelligence of people "up north" is uncalled
for.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Mad Dog anti EU wrote:

Do not mind me asking but I thought someone disabled could take someone with
them at discount.

yes I thought so too. but only on BR, not on underground.


That will not matter one iota, where is it being dealt with, a Petty
Sessional court ?

Magistrates ?


no idea,, dont know much about courts..


Get a solicitor and a medical letter off your doctor and get an ajournment.
At a court there is always a duty solicitor available for those without
legal advice. He needs to tell the court Usher when he checks in that he
requires to see the duty solicitor. This is normal practice, he/she will
then work out whether your carer can plead not guilty and get away with it,
and will therefore ask for an adjournment.

this has been done.. now we just await the outcome..


He must say as he is disabled himself he could see no harm at all.


You must play on your disability and also must your carer. Tell your doctor
that you have been suffering with anxiety and depression and a lack of
sleep. Tell your carer to make out his nerves were bad and that he felt he
was having a nervous breakdown.

I once knew a teacher who had a breakdown and was blagging his way on trains
due to his illness. The court will take this into consideration, it is
really nothing to worry about.

It is possible to plead not guilty to an offense like this and escape
without a criminal record. What he will get is a binding over to keep the
peace or conditional discharge as long as the complainant is reimbursed.
This would be agreed upon as it is only trivial, he has no criminal record
and it will save a lot of time.

| | ruth

Do not worry about this because it is nothing, just get a solicitor for your
friend and apply for legal aid, the solicitor will do that for you.


Thankyou at least someone who isnt so impolite to judge people they
dont know. I never have blagged on trains..(probably because I cant
actually get on one!)_ we havent used a solicitor but i have written a
hopefully decent letter which will be viewed more sympathetically than
by the majority in this group!!

ruth

You are right.. my carer would probably qualify for a pass, but as he
doesnt live in london he cant get one to visit me.. only in yorkshire
where he lives, which is no use in this situation.
The only use I get out of my pass is to take someone free with me into
the cinema,
My carer technically has a life threatening progressive illness and is
much more deserving of a pass than me, and yet he gets nothing. I am
given the one thing I cannot use with my health problem! a pass for
public transport! I d do much better without the pass but with more
local support which might actually make me well enough to have a
career/social life/ and travel again, but that just isnt available. Can
you understand now why I dont think its fair that he should be
punished. I am not able to use the door to door transport. I havent
been offered that option.

ruth

wrote:
Let's see: You attempted to commit a public fraud, by giving out your
pass. And your caregiver, attempted to travel without purchasing a
ticket for themselves. Why should you be allowed to break the rules,
when the rest of us are working so hard to change the rules to make
them work?

As someone who worked very hard over years to get them to issue passes
to the disabled, being one myself, I find your actions to be
unforgivable.

I assume that the person that caught your caregiver, retained your
pass. And that some action will be taken to determine if you gave it
away (illegal) or it was stolen (another strike against your
caregiver).

If your caregiver has a disability, then that person may have
qualified for their own pass. Have they attempted to get one of their
own? Where I live, the passes for permanent disabilities are free. For
those with a temporary disability, like a broken leg, there is a
minimal paperwork-fee.

And yes, "free" meant that I had to get into the inaccessible
transport office to get the form, get to my doctor, get back into the
inaccessible transport office and then wait almost a month for the
pass.

By your actions of "lending out" your pass, you've made it that much
more difficult for those of us that use and need them. For those of us
that can't utilize the more public mass transit, we have worked hard
to get a coach that goes door-to-door. This is also subsidized to be
less than public transit.

And planning a trip to any locale is such a pain, since there are so
few accessible routes and stations. And with kerbs being so tall, I
have often had to travel IN the streets, which is a battle all it's
own, so the struggle to make things more accessible continues.

"ruth" wrote in message
roups.com
| | This is my first post on this group, and I wonder if
| | someone here might advise me..
| | I am a holder of a disabled persons freedom pass. My
| | disability means I cannot actually use public
| | transport.. This is a miserable waste really, when all
| | I would ideally require are some travel vouchers for my
| | carer so he can come and help me.