In article , david.of
(David of Broadway) wrote:

David Biddulph wrote:
"David of Broadway" wrote in
message ...
David Biddulph wrote:
"David of Broadway" wrote in
message ...
Paul Terry wrote:

A physical link, such as an underground passageway, would
have been possible during the many occasions when Hammersmith
Broadway has been rebuilt over the years. I suspect that it
never happened because the number of passengers requiring
such an interchange is very small indeed.
If there was never an underground passageway, then what
"Subway to District and Piccadilly lines" is this (former)
sign referring to?


http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...Id=15350&g2_im
ageViewsIndex=1
It could have been referring to one of the subways under the
road?
What do you mean by "one of the subways under the road" if not
"an underground passageway"?

I meant one from outside the station, rather than a direct link
between the two stations.

If there is/was a passageway under the road outside the station,
how much more work could it be to connect it inside the station?

Quite a lot as I remember the subway. Neither end was that near either
station (especially the Met/H&C one) and the levels were all wrong too, I
suspect. Why something wasn't included with the Hammersmith (District and
Piccadilly) station redevelopment is beyond me, however.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , James Farrar
writes
Well, if the businesses petitioning want to pay the costs involved...

Didn't LT agree to the renaming of Goodge Street as "Fitzrovia" some
years ago, provided local businesses paid the costs incurred? In any
case, nothing ever came of it, did it?

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , david.of
(David of Broadway) wrote:

David Biddulph wrote:
"David of Broadway" wrote in
message ...
David Biddulph wrote:
"David of Broadway" wrote in
message ...
Paul Terry wrote:

A physical link, such as an underground passageway, would
have been possible during the many occasions when Hammersmith
Broadway has been rebuilt over the years. I suspect that it
never happened because the number of passengers requiring
such an interchange is very small indeed.
If there was never an underground passageway, then what
"Subway to District and Piccadilly lines" is this (former)
sign referring to?


http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...Id=15350&g2_im
ageViewsIndex=1
It could have been referring to one of the subways under the
road?
What do you mean by "one of the subways under the road" if not
"an underground passageway"?

I meant one from outside the station, rather than a direct link
between the two stations.

If there is/was a passageway under the road outside the station,
how much more work could it be to connect it inside the station?

Quite a lot as I remember the subway. Neither end was that near
either station (especially the Met/H&C one) and the levels were all
wrong too, I suspect. Why something wasn't included with the
Hammersmith (District and Piccadilly) station redevelopment is
beyond me, however.

Since the D & P platforms are islands, you would need any interchange
subway to go up or down from them first. Unless you put four escalators
in the subway, which I doubt could have been justified, such a subway
would not be more convenient than the present street-level crossing
which has the advantage that it's at platform level for the H&C station.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message , David of Broadway
writes

If there is/was a passageway under the road outside the station, how
much more work could it be to connect it inside the station?

An awful lot. The north end emerged in the street not particularly close
to the H&C station. But the real problem would have been on the south
side - projecting the subway any further south would have meant crossing
the District and Piccadilly lines on the level (!) especially to reach
the westbound platforms.

Since the H&C is a surface level station, and the ticket barriers of the
D&P station are also at surface level, a surface-level crossing makes
sense - and I suspect that the solution of a pedestrian crossing also
appealed as a "traffic calming" measure (the subway was never LU
property, so I doubt they had much say in the matter).

--
Paul Terry

wrote:
They've already had one half-hearted attempt at this about 15 years ago
when Shepherd's Bush(C) was going to become Shepherd's Bush Green. As
part of this plan new enamel line diagrams at Mile End WB carried the
new name, and indeed still do! I'm not sure if it ever appeared/appears
anywhere else and it certainly never got as far as Shepherd's Bush(C)
station itself.

Chancery Lane (at least WB) has Shepherd's Bush Green marked on it.

If we can't have two Shepherd's Bush stations where does that leave
Edgware Road, Hammersmith and Paddington?

Well - there will be two S Bush stations - Shepherd's Bush, and
Shepherd's Bush Market. The West London Line and Central Line stations
are so close to each other that it would be counter-productive to give
them separate names. In fact, the platforms on each line are probably
closer together than those in many Zone 1 in-station interchanges.

Hammersmith is slightly less obvious but the stations are still so close
together, and there are directions from each to the other. It would be
good to add some (more prominent) publicity advising customers that
Oyster PAYG will not charge extra for the interchange.

The Paddingtons are really both part of the same complex - just at
opposite ends of it. The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
will make using Paddington much easier, with passengers to/from the
northern Circle almost exclusively using the Bishop's Road (H&C)
platforms, and passengers to/from the western Circle and beyond using
the Praed Street (C/D) platforms.

I'm not sure there's much of a problem at Edgware Road. They're just on
opposite sides of the flyover, and nobody will be interchanging between
them as Paddington and Baker Street are more suitable (and marked as
such on the Tube map).

As for confusion for people arranging to meet outside a station, this
can occur even at a single site where there are multiple exits (e.g.
Victoria).

That implies that renaming nearby stations with the same name, to
stations with different names, won't reap many benefits. Arranging to
meet people at large locations in London is inherently tricky and is
just a fact of big-city life, I think!


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:52:21 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Christian Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 03:10:58 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

Tristán White wrote:

What do you think of the petition by Brick Lane residents and
shop and restaurant owners to get Aldgate East renamed "Brick
Lane" to boost the area. Having lost Shoreditch station, they're
getting a bit of a rum deal at the moment.

I've always been rather sceptical of the idea that Shoreditch
is/was the best station for Brick Lane. Personally I've always
found Aldgate East to be the most useful. I guess if you were
travelling from south of Whitechapel and Shoreditch was open
then it might be useful, but Aldgate East comes out at a better
place for walking Brick Lane properly.

Depends on where you're going on Brick Lane. I often go to the
"Beigel" bakeries at the other end of Brick Lane, and it's a 10
minute walk from Aldgate East to the bakeries.

So the new Shoreditch High Street station when it opens would be equally
if not more convenient than Aldgate East for the north end of Brick
Lane.

I don't see how the closure of a station that was generally open only in
peak hours would have a major impact on the restaurants. Perhaps they
should concentrate on the quality of the food rather than aggressively
harrassing pedestrians on Brick Lane or organising ill-founded
petitions.

Most of the restaurants are in the middle of Brick Lane, before the brewery.
After that there are a few coffee shops, the two "beigel" shops, and a couple
of boutiques. Shoreditch High Street will probably be OK for the restaurants,
but I'm not averse to a renaming of Aldgate East either.

The closing of Shoreditch has really screwed up my rye bread consumption.
That's what I go to the "beigel" shops to buy, and it used to be fairly easy
when Shoreditch was around; I just took the train shortly after they opened
Shoreditch and then took the #35 bus home. Now I have to plan my visits and
usually (stupidly) take the #8 bus from Victoria because it normally turns up
in front of my place of work as I'm leaving. That takes about an hour, whereas
if I could resist its blandishments and take the Circle Line from Victoria to
Liverpool Street I could either walk or take the #8 from there.

--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
www.christianphansen.com or chrishansenhome.livejournal.com

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:07:45 +0000, asdf wrote:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:18:00 -0000, John Rowland wrote:

What do you think of the petition by Brick Lane residents and shop and
restaurant owners to get Aldgate East renamed "Brick Lane" to boost
the area.

I hope they don't get their way. The station isn't in Brick lane, or very
near it.

It would also invite a flurry of other requests to rename stations for
commercial purposes, and would leave LU with no excuse to deny those
requests. Look forward to Waterloo being renamed London Eye, etc. Does
the name of South Kensington get changed to Museum Central or Royal
Albert Hall? Perhaps they could hold auctions - highest bidder gets to
name their station.

This already happens in the US, I believe.

I think it's unlikely that there would be any neighbourhood pressure to rename
Waterloo Station to London Eye Station. There might be some pressure from the
museums to rename South Kensington to something more museum-like, I suppose.

However, station name changes are not unknown here so the debate around this
is healthy. After all, the name of the station should be descriptive of the
area. If the area changes the name of the station should be up-for-grabs.

I think that we're talking "Brick Lane" as a neighbourhood rather than
strictly as a street.
--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
www.christianphansen.com or chrishansenhome.livejournal.co

Christian Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:07:45 +0000, asdf
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:18:00 -0000, John Rowland wrote:

What do you think of the petition by Brick Lane residents and
shop and restaurant owners to get Aldgate East renamed "Brick
Lane" to boost
the area.

I hope they don't get their way. The station isn't in Brick lane,
or very near it.

It would also invite a flurry of other requests to rename stations
for commercial purposes, and would leave LU with no excuse to deny
those requests. Look forward to Waterloo being renamed London Eye,
etc. Does the name of South Kensington get changed to Museum
Central or Royal Albert Hall? Perhaps they could hold auctions -
highest bidder gets to name their station.

This already happens in the US, I believe.

I think it's unlikely that there would be any neighbourhood
pressure to rename Waterloo Station to London Eye Station. There
might be some pressure from the museums to rename South Kensington
to something more museum-like, I suppose.

However, station name changes are not unknown here so the debate
around this is healthy. After all, the name of the station should
be descriptive of the area. If the area changes the name of the
station should be up-for-grabs.

I think that we're talking "Brick Lane" as a neighbourhood rather
than strictly as a street.

OK, but what would be achieved by changing the name of Aldgate East?
The profits of second-rate restaurants don't come high on my priorities.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:58:01 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Christian Hansen wrote:
I think that we're talking "Brick Lane" as a neighbourhood rather
than strictly as a street.

OK, but what would be achieved by changing the name of Aldgate East?
The profits of second-rate restaurants don't come high on my priorities.

That's what the debate will be about. "Brick Lane" has become the name
synonymous with the area surrounding and extending north from the current
station.

It's true that the station itself does not belong to the neighbourhood; it
belongs to LUL and, through them, us the users. But the name of the station is
nondescript: it's just saying that it's east of Aldgate (which is true) but
nothing more.

As Underground maps are reprinted regularly (presumably all the maps have just
been reprinted to indicate the zone changes around Hainault) some coordination
could make a name change a bit less onerous financially.

Has anyone quantified the expense associated with changing the name of Aldgate
East?
--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
www.christianphansen.com or chrishansenhome.livejournal.co

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006, Tristán White wrote:

Not sure about Paddington one - I think it's possible to get from one
to the other without going to street level isn't it? but you have to
walk past some NR platforms or something.... been a while since I went
down there.

There's no behind-the-barriers interchange. You have to go through the
mainline station.

I have been told that it's also possible to get from the H&C platforms
to the concourse without going through any barriers at all, but that's
another story ...

I'm not sure I should be disseminating such information, but it's been
discussed here beforehand, and it's not going to be much help in fare
evasion given that most other LU stations are gated, so I'll continue!

I live in Finsbury Park. Luckily, i am an honest man!

The ticket barriers do not need to be traversed when exiting the H&C
platforms - one can go up the stairs from the H&C to the overbridge then
before the LU gates there's stairs down to some of the Paddington
suburban platforms (13 & 14 IIRC). From there one can walk along the
side of platform 12 (see the map - I think platform 13 is a bay platform
at the end of the platform face of platform 12) out onto the concourse.

That's what i thought, although i've never actually tried it myself.

tom

--
Like Kurosawa i make mad films; okay, i don't make films, but if i did
they'd have a samurai.