Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Brimstone
writes

Which in a small way, is reassuring. It's nice to know that it's not
only the British that whinge. :-)

No, if you look back to the top of the thread, I was largely (not
exclusively but largely) talking about British people doing this. :-(

Ahh, I missed that bit, but I do understand the problem.

I used to be a guard on the Piccadilly Line. Passengers would ask me "Where
dos this train go to?" At forst I responded by asking where it was they were
trying to get to but some became quite stroppy so I stopped doing that and
simply answered the question.

Their blank faces when given the answer of "Cockfosters" (or which ever
north London station the train was terminating at) was a joy to behold (if
one was so minded). They would then ask the question they should have asked
in the first place, i.e. "How do I get to ...".

"Mizter T" wrote

I note your overall point. However in the example Bill gave, at the
time commuters would have had to buy a British Rail season ticket from
a BR ticket office, and buy a totally seperate Underground season
ticket from an Underground ticket office, there is thus a bit of a
disconnect.

How often people would have asked at a BR ticket office for a through
season ticket to Bank Underground station I don't know, but I guess it
may not have been that many, as intermodal ticketing simply wasn't on
the agenda at the time and commuters would, by and large, have been
aware of that.

On the contrary, through BR/LU season tickets have been available AIUI at
least since BR was nationalised. My father held a Chislehurst to South
Kensington (via Cannon Street or Charing Cross) season in the early 1950s,
and I held a Chislehurst to Reading General Priv Season, including travel on
the Bakerloo Line between Trafalgar Square and Paddington, in 1967. However,
in general if you travelled on ordinary tickets you had to rebook on the
tube. There were exceptions - in the early 1960s it was possible to get a
through ticket from Chislehurst to Whitechapel. I also remember in the late
1960s buying a day return Oxford to Chislehurst and the Oxford ticket office
also *selling* me a cross-London tube ticket (valid between tube stations
serving main line termini).

Peter

"Mizter T" wrote

Lancaster Gate (when it reopens) is a five minute walk away from
Paddington, something I think many people would find most convenient if
they knew - but given it's one of the quieter central London
Underground stations it would seem that they don't.

When Paddington was being resignalled in1967 and some passengers had to
transfer to the tube at Ealing Broadway it was specifically stated that
Paddington tickets would be valid to Lancaster Gate.

It's not like it's actually much of a hardship to get off at London
Bridge station and walk over the Thames into the City anyway!

Thousands do. That's why, when London Bridge was rebuilt (and the old one
sold to Lake Havasu City) the footway on the downstream side was made much
wider than the upstream one.

Peter

In message , Brimstone
writes
Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Brimstone
writes

Which in a small way, is reassuring. It's nice to know that it's not
only the British that whinge. :-)

No, if you look back to the top of the thread, I was largely (not
exclusively but largely) talking about British people doing this. :-(

Ahh, I missed that bit, but I do understand the problem.

I used to be a guard on the Piccadilly Line. Passengers would ask me "Where
dos this train go to?" At forst I responded by asking where it was they were
trying to get to but some became quite stroppy so I stopped doing that and
simply answered the question.

Their blank faces when given the answer of "Cockfosters" (or which ever
north London station the train was terminating at) was a joy to behold (if
one was so minded). They would then ask the question they should have asked
in the first place, i.e. "How do I get to ...".

Yes indeed. Isolating what people "ask" from "what they want to know"
is a difficult task but one which is very important in a customer-facing
environment.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Peter Masson wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

Lancaster Gate (when it reopens) is a five minute walk away from
Paddington, something I think many people would find most convenient if
they knew - but given it's one of the quieter central London
Underground stations it would seem that they don't.

When Paddington was being resignalled in1967 and some passengers had to
transfer to the tube at Ealing Broadway it was specifically stated that
Paddington tickets would be valid to Lancaster Gate.

An interesting snippet, thanks.


It's not like it's actually much of a hardship to get off at London
Bridge station and walk over the Thames into the City anyway!

Thousands do. That's why, when London Bridge was rebuilt (and the old one
sold to Lake Havasu City) the footway on the downstream side was made much
wider than the upstream one.

Peter

Of course, and I've done it myself many a time too. It just slightly
amazes me that a regular commuter would do anything but walk (or in
Bill's example continue on the train to Cannon Street).

Walking south from the City over the river I have been surprised at the
number of people boarding buses that terminate at London Bridge station
at the bus stop on the northern side of the bridge - or indeed I've
been similarly surprised when I've actually been on a southbound bus
(coming from much further North I should add) and seen many people pile
on just to go a stop or two south to the station. That said, if it
means they don't miss your train home I guess it's understandable - but
only if they already have a Travelcard and so aren't paying for the one
stop journey. If they are actually paying a bus fare then that's pretty
lame!

Peter Masson wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

I note your overall point. However in the example Bill gave, at the
time commuters would have had to buy a British Rail season ticket from
a BR ticket office, and buy a totally seperate Underground season
ticket from an Underground ticket office, there is thus a bit of a
disconnect.

How often people would have asked at a BR ticket office for a through
season ticket to Bank Underground station I don't know, but I guess it
may not have been that many, as intermodal ticketing simply wasn't on
the agenda at the time and commuters would, by and large, have been
aware of that.

On the contrary, through BR/LU season tickets have been available AIUI at
least since BR was nationalised. My father held a Chislehurst to South
Kensington (via Cannon Street or Charing Cross) season in the early 1950s,
and I held a Chislehurst to Reading General Priv Season, including travel on
the Bakerloo Line between Trafalgar Square and Paddington, in 1967. However,
in general if you travelled on ordinary tickets you had to rebook on the
tube. There were exceptions - in the early 1960s it was possible to get a
through ticket from Chislehurst to Whitechapel. I also remember in the late
1960s buying a day return Oxford to Chislehurst and the Oxford ticket office
also *selling* me a cross-London tube ticket (valid between tube stations
serving main line termini).

Peter


Argh - I've been caught out making inaccurate statements, I duly defer
to your superior wisdom Peter. The couple of people of an elder
pedigree with whom I've spoken to about pre-Capitalcard/Travelcard
season ticketing didn't mention this, eithert because they didn't
remember or more likely because they never needed such tickets as they
walked from the London terminal to their workplaces.

In that case pretty much everything I said in response to Steve Firth
is wrong! I guess the two reasons why commuters weren't advised that
there was a cheaper way was either (a) the ticket seller at Orpington,
for example, didn't know how close Cannon Street and Bank were, or (b)
they couldn't be bothered to communicate said information - which is
understandable in a way as the commuter asked for the ticket
specifically, and there may have been a monday-morning queue forming
behind said person all eager to just buy their ticket.

Peter, I've been intending to wrack the brains of someone such as you
so I could plot the history of such ticketing before the
Capitalcard/Travelcard. Have you any idea what area such BR/LU tickets
were available in - presumably from all London stations, but from
Haywards Heath, or even Brighton?

AIUI there was however a (somewhat bizarre) lack of intermodal
ticketing between London Transport buses and LU and/or BR, possibly
something to do with certain legal issues (and no I'm not getting
confused with the Bromley council legal challenge to Ken's Fairs Fair
policy in the early 80's) - am I right on this? Which begs the even
wider question as to what the situation was outside of London as to
whether there was any intermodal BR and local bus ticketing?

Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:25:34 +0000, JNugent
wrote:


John Rowland wrote:

Mark Goodge wrote:


On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:22:16 -0000, Nick Pedley put finger to keyboard
and typed:


"I never knew Paris was so close to London that we could see the
Eiffel Tower from the top of the wheel!"

At the risk of asking another tricky question, what is it that they're
seeing that prompts this remark?


The Blackpool Tower, of course!

(Actually, Crystal Palace television transmitter.)

It had to be.

Did they ask why there were two of them?


Is the view of both towers unobstructed ? IIRC the Beulah Hill
(ex-ITV) mast is smaller.

You can see both towers from most high vantage points,
including many in North London.

On 4 Jan 2007 05:36:38 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

How often people would have asked at a BR ticket office for a through
season ticket to Bank Underground station I don't know, but I guess it
may not have been that many, as intermodal ticketing simply wasn't on
the agenda at the time

I must have been dreaming being able to go to Braintree station and buy a
through ticket to Manchester that included the Underground fare from
Liverpool Street to Euston from errm 1983 to 1987 then.

Steve Firth wrote:

On 4 Jan 2007 05:36:38 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

How often people would have asked at a BR ticket office for a through
season ticket to Bank Underground station I don't know, but I guess it
may not have been that many, as intermodal ticketing simply wasn't on
the agenda at the time

I must have been dreaming being able to go to Braintree station and buy a
through ticket to Manchester that included the Underground fare from
Liverpool Street to Euston from errm 1983 to 1987 then.

My apologies - I got it all wrong.

If you see elsewhere on the thread Peter Masson has shone a spotlight
on my errors.

"Mizter T" wrote

Peter, I've been intending to wrack the brains of someone such as you
so I could plot the history of such ticketing before the
Capitalcard/Travelcard. Have you any idea what area such BR/LU tickets
were available in - presumably from all London stations, but from
Haywards Heath, or even Brighton?

AIUI there was however a (somewhat bizarre) lack of intermodal
ticketing between London Transport buses and LU and/or BR, possibly
something to do with certain legal issues (and no I'm not getting
confused with the Bromley council legal challenge to Ken's Fairs Fair
policy in the early 80's) - am I right on this? Which begs the even
wider question as to what the situation was outside of London as to
whether there was any intermodal BR and local bus ticketing?

IIRC before the Fares Fair era, London Transport buses worked on the basis
that you paid your cash fare for each separate journey, with few exceptions.
I don't think there were such things as bus season tickets, return tickets
on London buses, or through (or interchangeable) bus/tube or bus/rail
tickets. The only exceptions I can remember were schoolchildren's free
passes, Red Rovers, Green Rovers (freedom of Central or Country buses for a
day) and Twin Rovers (red buses plus tubes).

From the Southern Region 1964 timetable:
'Season tickets can also be obtained for journeys between stations on the
Southern Region and Underground stations.' (also, though more relevant to
another thread a mention of season tickets at reduced rates for young people
under 18.) There is also a reference to combined and/or interavailable
road/rail season tickets, though, as mentioned, I am pretty sure that these
did not apply to London Transport Buses (including what became London
Country). There are also 4 pages of routes (outside the London Passenger
Transport Board area[1]) of Road/Rail tickets, i.e. where the return half of
a rail ticket was valid by bus, and where the return part of a bus return
could be exchanged for a rail ticket, though a supplementary charge was
usually payable.

[1] There was interavailability between BR and East Kent Road Car Co Ltd,
and BR and Southdown Motior Services Ltd for journeys between London and
various towns served by those two bus companies.

Peter