Harry G wrote:

I saw an interesting programme about the South Ferry 1 line terminal
reconstruction on a cable channel here the other night - amazed that
such a cramped and awkward operating layout has survived until now.

It is somewhat cramped. But as far as train movements go, it's
incredibly efficient. It can easily handle 30 tph; the only reason
service only runs at 20 tph is that the north terminal, at the other end
of the line, can't handle anymore, and NYCT is generally highly allergic
to short turns (although there are two stations where alternate trains
could be easily turned). While the claim has been made that the new
terminal will support 24 tph, that's still substantially less than the
current 30 tph, and the documents released to the public justifying the
new terminal don't justify the 24 tph claim. In fact, based on the
track diagrams, it looks very much like the Jamaica Center terminal on
the E, which can only handle 12 tph, except that Jamaica Center has
longer tail tracks. So some of us are quite concerned with the possible
repercussions of this expensive reconstruction.

And before anyone suggests that reduced service will be adequate once
all ten cars can platform at South Ferry, it turns out that the busiest
part of the line is nowhere near South Ferry. This post from 2002 gives
1999 ridership counts (turnstile entries) along the 1 line, excluding
transfer points to other lines (but including several express stations
also served by the 2 and 3):
http://groups.google.com/group/nyc.t...23b9e388bd967b

Since 1999, ridership has increased at most stations, although South
Ferry is one of the few exceptions -- by 2004, ridership had dropped to
3,382,813.

As these numbers reveal, the most crowded part of the line is the
section between Times Square and 137th Street. And as a daily rider of
that section of the line, I can say that trains are already overcrowded;
we badly need more service, not less.

Also, bear in mind that the typical subway station in New York is a
modest affair. Typically, several sidewalk staircases lead either
directly to the platform or first to an intermediate mezzanine. Station
buildings are uncommon.

From this I guess that the track layouts, connections and switches on
the NY Subway are more like a tramway (with many connections not used
for normal service) rather than the London Underground (with relative
rare non-service connections between lines) - I can't imagine LU being
able to operate anywhere near this sort of revised service.

That's an interesting analogy, although London's subsurface lines are
quite similar. It's only the deep tube lines that are effectively
isolated from each other.

Here are some (slightly out-of-date) track maps for New York, incidentally:
http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track.html

The most unusual diversion I can think of is when Bakerloo line
(Stanmore branch) services were diverted over the Metropolitan line
south of Finchley Road into the terminal platforms at Baker Street -
this would have been around 1975/6, when the junctions for the future
Jubilee line were being constructed.

Tube trains at the terminal platforms at Baker Street? I hope somebody
took pictures!

One that I just noticed for the Northern line, King's Cross southbound:
"Euston (To Picc.) Bank Branch" (which I am sure is not in public
service, and probably would just be described as 'Not in Service' on
the platform!)

I've caught that system claiming that the next southbound train at
Archway was 2 minutes away, between Golders Green and Hampstead.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

Tom Anderson wrote:

7 train from Manhattan to Shea Stadium; said goodbye to my friends who
were going to see the tennis and walked into Flushing in search of
Chinese food; having found it, and a local burger place i can't honestly
recommend, walked back, and then along the length of Flushing Meadows,
getting lost in Kew Gardens Hills on the way (and passing an enormous
rail depot of some sort) and eventually found Briarwood Van Wyck
Boulevard station; sat there for a while waiting for an E train towards
Jamaica before getting round to reading the small print on the map and
realising that it wasn't going to come; walked out and down to Sutphin
Boulevard station, and caught a J train; changed at Broadway Junction
(an amazing station!) onto the A, and rode it to Hoyt Schermerhorn;
walked around the Fulton Street mall and environs, ate cheesecake,
bought a couple of T-shirts in Modell's (one of which has now fallen to
bits); somehow got back to east 66th street - i think it wasn't via the
4 from Borough Hall, but rather the 2 or 3 to Times Square, so i could
have a go on the shuttle to Grand Central and then get the 6 home!

Not bad!

That enormous rail depot was (the badly misnamed) Jamaica Yard, home to
the R-32 and R-46 cars used on the E, F, G, R, and V trains.

You could have taken the F train to Sutphin Boulevard. It's a different
station, but it's only a few blocks away from the E/J/Z station.

Did you look out the railfan window (the window at the front of the
train) at all? That's something that isn't possible in London except on
DLR. (It won't be possible in New York for much longer either, since
the older 60-foot rolling stock is about to be replaced, and in a few
years nearly every train will have a transverse cab at either end.)

Anyway, should i have been afraid?

No, although I probably wouldn't have gone for a long walk in an
unfamiliar city without a map. Probably the most dangerous area you
were in was the Broadway Junction area, but you were inside a busy
subway station, so I wouldn't have been concerned. (Speaking of
Broadway Junction, did you see the rail yard off to the right of the J
train? That's East New York Yard, home to the R-42 and R-143 cars used
on the J/Z, M, and L trains.)

I was a bit worried when i was lost
in Kew Gardens, since i was off the edge of all my maps, but it seemed
like a nice area, and i knew roughly where i was heading, so wasn't
afraid as such. I managed to walk through a couple of motorway junctions
on the way (these seem to be a popular feature of New York parks!),
which didn't make things any easier.

This one, most likely:
http://www.empirestateroads.com/week/week32.html

Robert Moses, NYC Parks Commissioner for most of the middle of the 20th
Century, also built nearly all of NYC's highways.

Brooklyn itself was fine - felt
rather like Brixton, actually, far more London-like than any other part
of New York (although the scabby northern end of Broadway had something
of the Seven Sisters Road to it).

The scabby northern end of Broadway? Are you referring to Broadway
Junction or to the much more famous Broadway, the one that runs up the
length of Manhattan and continues into the Bronx (and, arguably, beyond)?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk)
would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is
that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there
is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and
ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But
of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel
more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any
special reason for not doing it?

Thanks
Martin

Martin Krieger wrote:
By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a
walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this,
is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR
etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses. When
I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are
usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some
information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any
special reason for not doing it?

As it happens I was on a 73 bendy-bus travelling from Oxford Street to
Victoria on Friday, and the driver announced every stop over the PA.
Messages such as "Anyone for Bond Street station or Selfridges, you want
the next stop". Very helpful, and it should be more common.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Martin Krieger wrote:

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk)
would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is
that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there
is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and
ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But
of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel
more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any
special reason for not doing it?

Thanks
Martin


Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and
inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to
do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus
project.

See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp

On 21 Jan 2007 05:33:35 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

Martin Krieger wrote:

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk)
would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is
that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there
is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and
ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But
of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel
more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any
special reason for not doing it?

Thanks
Martin


Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and
inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to
do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus
project.

See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp

Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults.

Mizter T wrote:
Martin Krieger wrote:

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use



Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and
inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer to
do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus
project.

See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp


Which is a shame. The Las Vegas Double Decker 'Deuce' buses have jovial
announcements from the drivers at all stops despite being incredible
congested and full. Incidentally these buses are made in the UK but
offer a much superior comfort and equipmet level than anything from TFL.

mysteryflyer

James Farrar wrote:
On 21 Jan 2007 05:33:35 -0800, "Mizter T"
wrote:

Martin Krieger wrote:

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to
use the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even
a walk) would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for
this, is that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube,
DLR etc., there is no passenger information at all on the buses.
When I'm not sure and ask the driver or other passengers they are
usually quite helpful. But of course if there where some
information it would make visitors feel more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there
any special reason for not doing it?

Thanks
Martin


Expecting the driver to make announcements and drive/take fares and
inspect tickets is considered unfeasable, but expecting a computer
to
do ain't. Which is why such a project is in the pipeline - the iBus
project.

See: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-ibus.asp

Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults.

It needn't be. In Paris, you get a scrolling dot-matrix display showing
the name of the next or current stop, the destination, and estimated
times in minutes to the destination and an important intermediate stop.
The only audio announcement is of the name of the next stop just before
you reach it. Very useful indeed, and certainly not an assault.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:

Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults.

It needn't be.

Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are,
whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate
timing of announcements or bad production techniques.

James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:52:29 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:

Oh, joy. Yet more audio assaults.

It needn't be.

Well, no, they don't need to be, but they almost invariably are,
whether due to incorrect pronunciation of placenames, inappropriate
timing of announcements or bad production techniques.

On the Underground, they are much better than they were, and I have no
complaints at all about Emma Clarke's announcements on the District
Line. What current incorrect pronunciations irritate you?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)