Jon wrote:

A few years ago there was a circulat bus route linking all the main
London stations, using low-floor vehicles with loading ramps. It was
indeed slow. The idea was to serve travellers who needed ro-ro loading
for wheelchairs, prams, etc and so could not use the Underground at
all, although the service was open to all users. I think (someone here
may know better) that it disappeared for lack of customers. Perhaps few
wheelchair users make cross-London journeys or maybe most doing so
prefered a taxi transfer.

That's correct: in the 1990s there was a pair of circular services,
Stationlink SL1/2 (clockwise/anti), although there had been something
prior to that as well which failed (and ISTR a night-time service in
the early 1980s). These were pretty infrequent and because they served
virtually all stations could be terribly slow - it might take a couple
of hours from arriving at one terminal before you reached your
cross-London terminal. I think they disappeared around 4-5 years ago.

Route 205 is a legacy of the Stationlink service, and there was also a
705 which seems to have withdrawn. Apart from the slow journey times,
taxi options and infrequency, the accessibility of all London buses to
the groups mentioned above probably put the final nail in the coffin of
dedicated Stationlink services or similar.

In message .com,
Harry G writes

Jon wrote:

A few years ago there was a circulat bus route linking all the main
London stations, using low-floor vehicles with loading ramps. It was
indeed slow. The idea was to serve travellers who needed ro-ro loading
for wheelchairs, prams, etc and so could not use the Underground at
all, although the service was open to all users. I think (someone here
may know better) that it disappeared for lack of customers. Perhaps few
wheelchair users make cross-London journeys or maybe most doing so
prefered a taxi transfer.

That's correct: in the 1990s there was a pair of circular services,
Stationlink SL1/2 (clockwise/anti), although there had been something
prior to that as well which failed (and ISTR a night-time service in
the early 1980s).
The night time Inter Station bus was much older than that; I think it
dated back to the 1960s or even earlier. (Someone will be along to
tell us all shortly.)

These were pretty infrequent and because they served
virtually all stations could be terribly slow - it might take a couple
of hours from arriving at one terminal before you reached your
cross-London terminal. I think they disappeared around 4-5 years ago.

Route 205 is a legacy of the Stationlink service, and there was also a
705 which seems to have withdrawn.
Yes, the 205 and 705 were direct replacements for the Stationlink buses.
I think the actual change was as part of the package of bus improvements
to accompany the introduction of the Congestion Charge. I never used
the 705 but have caught the 205 a few times, not linking rail journeys
but on the way to one, certainly. I remember thinking that this was an
ideal time for PA to be employed (it wasn't).

Apart from the slow journey times,
taxi options and infrequency, the accessibility of all London buses to
the groups mentioned above probably put the final nail in the coffin of
dedicated Stationlink services or similar.
Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In
my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or
sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote:

The night time Inter Station bus was much older than that; I think it
dated back to the 1960s or even earlier. (Someone will be along to
tell us all shortly.)

[Enter a someone]

Evening all!

I can date it as far back as 1949, and I suspect it goes back even
further, perhaps to the creation of the London Passenger Transport Board
in 1933. In 1949 it was the "London Termini Inter-Station Bus Service"
and ran "Daily (Christmas Day Excepted)" for a fare of one shilling (5p
in new money). But it was primarily an evening service, operating every
half hour from about 7 p.m. to midnight, then with an extra service
around 4 a.m. It operated from Kings Cross to Waterloo via Euston,
Paddington and Victoria, and vice versa.

By 1961 though it had shrunk to a few fitful workings around midnight,
but was still advertised in the railway timetable.
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:27:06 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message .com,
Harry G writes

That's correct: in the 1990s there was a pair of circular services,
Stationlink SL1/2 (clockwise/anti), although there had been something
prior to that as well which failed (and ISTR a night-time service in
the early 1980s).

The night time Inter Station bus was much older than that; I think it
dated back to the 1960s or even earlier. (Someone will be along to
tell us all shortly.)

There was a pre-war Inter-Station bus service which used half-deck
Leyland Cubs. It ran until 1950 using them.

See http://www.countrybus.org.uk/C/Cub.html
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Ian Jelf wrote in uk.transport.london on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:27:06
+0000 :
(to utl only)

Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In
my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or
sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice.

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

But I've known people new to London not to trust either, in one case
walking from Kings Cross to Knightsbridge and back...

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:28:58 -0000, Dave Hillam ]
wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

But I've known people new to London not to trust either, in one case
walking from Kings Cross to Knightsbridge and back...

I'm suprised a stranger could *find their way* from Kings Cross to
Knightsbridge and back!

--
Fig

Dave Hillam wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

Regarding point (b), the bus spider maps with an index do help
considerably so long as there is a direct bus from where you are to
where you want to go.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Dave Hillam wrote:
IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

I'm a Londoner and have no problem using buses here - but if I'm in a
strange city I'll take the metro or a tram by preference. Something
psychlogical to do with the fact that metro or tram services can't
deviate from their tracks and (usually!) come back exactly the same way
they went, point (b) in Dave's post.

Harry G wrote:

I'm a Londoner and have no problem using buses here - but if I'm in a
strange city I'll take the metro or a tram by preference. Something
psychlogical to do with the fact that metro or tram services can't
deviate from their tracks and (usually!) come back exactly the same way
they went, point (b) in Dave's post.

Guess you've never been to New York!

Just yesterday we had:

Southbound 1 trains operated express from 137th Street to 96th Street
and again express from 34th Street to 14th Street, where they terminated
(running back north from the southbound express track). But 2 and 3
trains, which normally run express between 96th Street and Chambers
Street, ran local instead. Shuttle buses ran between Chambers Street
and South Ferry on the 1.

The 5 ran local in both directions in Manhattan, terminating at Brooklyn
Bridge instead of Bowling Green.

No C service at all. Instead, the A ran local. Except northbound from
Canal Street to 59th Street, where both the A and E ran express.
(Except that E train stopped at 50th Street itself.)

The southbound F train ran via the A line between West 4th Street and
Jay Street.

There was no G service south of Bedford-Nassau Avenues. Instead, there
was shuttle bus service to Jay Street.

There was no 6 service north of Parkchester. Instead, there was shuttle
bus service to Pelham Bay Park.

L trains ran in two segments, split at Broadway Junction. Also, the
brand new PA/CIS system on the L (essentially equivalent to the
next-train indicators that you've had for, oh, a century or so) was
undergoing testing, with sometimes humorous results.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:13:30 -0500, David of Broadway
wrote:

Harry G wrote:

I'm a Londoner and have no problem using buses here - but if I'm in a
strange city I'll take the metro or a tram by preference. Something
psychlogical to do with the fact that metro or tram services can't
deviate from their tracks and (usually!) come back exactly the same way
they went, point (b) in Dave's post.

Guess you've never been to New York!

Just yesterday we had:

Southbound 1 trains operated express from 137th Street to 96th Street
and again express from 34th Street to 14th Street, where they terminated
(running back north from the southbound express track). But 2 and 3
trains, which normally run express between 96th Street and Chambers
Street, ran local instead. Shuttle buses ran between Chambers Street
and South Ferry on the 1.

[snip other examples]

this temporary "chopping and changing" of routes and then the wholesale
re-ordering of the Subway service patterns every so often is something
that I struggle to comprehend.

How on earth do New Yorkers cope with this scale of change -
particularly to stopping patterns? Does it cause real problems or is it
just one of those things that people now accept?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!