In message om, sweek
writes

You guys are confusing the Tube map (LU + DLR + North London Line)
with the Connections map, showing all passenger raill ines in London.
TfL has also released a 2010 Tube Map earlier this year, clearly
showing that the whole Overground would appear on the map in orange.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/pdf/tube_map2010.pdf

Ah, I see that the idea of moving Hainault loop stations into Zone 4
will have failed by then.

--
Paul Terry

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:32:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

the Bakerloo extended back to Watford Junction

Yes, i'm really surprised that isn't shown.

The map is a few years old - from long before Bakerloo to WJ was
confirmed.

There's more speculative stuff than that that is shown, though. Or did
this idea develop particularly quickly?

This map (the copy i have, anyway) is missing the new stops at Park Royal
on the Central and Wood Lane on the H&C, too, which is rather surprising
given that they're due very soon.

Park Royal (Central) is due very soon? I haven't heard anything on this
project for years, and would have assumed it's been postponed
indefinitely if not quietly dropped altogether.

Oh, i had the impression things were being done. I may well be completely
mistaken - there's a lot going on out west, and i don't tend to pay all
that much attention to it!

tom

--
Yulava? Niob Yam!

On 15 Jan 2007 04:52:55 -0800, "sweek"
wrote:

The Northern Line will hopefully be split by then, the Bakerloo
extended back to Watford Junction and the old Watford station would be
closed.

That would be a pity - Watford Met is far more convenient for my trips
to Watford than is Junction.

sweek wrote:

The Northern Line will hopefully be split by then, the Bakerloo
extended back to Watford Junction and the old Watford station would be
closed.

Thinking like a New Yorker he

If this happens, would it be possible for Bakerloo trains to be rerouted
up the Jubilee and Met to Watford Junction and then run back into
Central London on their regular route? That might be useful to get past
a stalled train or to allow for track work.

Come to think of it, can trains be rerouted in this fashion anywhere
else? Aside from relatively simple cases involving the Circle line, the
only example I can think of (and I don't know if this is possible) is to
divert a Piccadilly line train from Uxbridge down the Met, around most
of the Circle via Tower Hill, through Earl's Court, and back onto the
Picc at Hammersmith. I don't think rerouting a Central line train via
the District at Mile End is possible.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:32:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

the Bakerloo extended back to Watford Junction

Yes, i'm really surprised that isn't shown.

The map is a few years old - from long before Bakerloo to WJ was
confirmed.

There's more speculative stuff than that that is shown, though. Or did
this idea develop particularly quickly?

Whilst the Bakerloo northern extension has been on the cards tentatively
for a while, the announcement that TfL would take over the Watford DC
line was the catalyst for it to go forward more definitely. The map is
pre-announcement (it still shows it as Silverlink Metro, and omits
through connections at Willesden Junction and Gospel Oak.

This map (the copy i have, anyway) is missing the new stops at Park
Royal
on the Central and Wood Lane on the H&C, too, which is rather surprising
given that they're due very soon.

Park Royal (Central) is due very soon? I haven't heard anything on
this project for years, and would have assumed it's been postponed
indefinitely if not quietly dropped altogether.

Oh, i had the impression things were being done. I may well be
completely mistaken - there's a lot going on out west, and i don't tend
to pay all that much attention to it!

Unfortunately nothing has happened with Park Royal. AIUI the
construction of the station is tied into planning consent conditions
related to occupancy of the buildings in the adjacent development (i.e.
once occupancy hits a certain percentage, the station must be built) and
the conditions haven't been met yet.

Wood Lane is more advanced than Park Royal (in that it is required for
the shopping centre) - although last time I looked in December, no
physical works had started.

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave A wrote:


Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

David of Broadway wrote:

Come to think of it, can trains be rerouted in this fashion anywhere else?
Aside from relatively simple cases involving the Circle line, the only
example I can think of (and I don't know if this is possible) is to divert
a Piccadilly line train from Uxbridge down the Met, around most of the
Circle via Tower Hill, through Earl's Court, and back onto the Picc at
Hammersmith. I don't think rerouting a Central line train via the
District at Mile End is possible.

I've never seen a physical connection between the lines at or around Mile
End.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:37:15 -0500, David of Broadway
wrote:

sweek wrote:

The Northern Line will hopefully be split by then, the Bakerloo
extended back to Watford Junction and the old Watford station would be
closed.

Thinking like a New Yorker he

If this happens, would it be possible for Bakerloo trains to be rerouted
up the Jubilee and Met to Watford Junction and then run back into
Central London on their regular route? That might be useful to get past
a stalled train or to allow for track work.

In theory that might be possible but the main issue by then will be the
degree of interworking that will be possible post line upgrades. In the
timeframe being suggested the Jubilee Line will be operating its new
signalling system and the Bakerloo will have commenced its upgrade but
it won't be in service.

Unless Bakerloo line trains were equipped to work under the Alcatel
signalling on the Jubilee Line I can't see a normal daytime operation
being possible. Engineering hours moves may be possible but probably
only under possession conditions and therefore not suitable for your
suggestion.

Come to think of it, can trains be rerouted in this fashion anywhere
else? Aside from relatively simple cases involving the Circle line, the
only example I can think of (and I don't know if this is possible) is to
divert a Piccadilly line train from Uxbridge down the Met, around most
of the Circle via Tower Hill, through Earl's Court, and back onto the
Picc at Hammersmith. I don't think rerouting a Central line train via
the District at Mile End is possible.

I don't know whether a Picc train would fit all the way round. ISTR that
one of the early refurbished trains did make it to Moorgate sidings. I
was involved in showing round a delegation (from Moscow IIRC) and I'm
sure the display was at Moorgate. I imaging Aldgate might be a little
exciting with a train of 73 stock although the shorter track recording
vehicle (which is of tube profile) can certainly toddle along the south
side of the District. It's always fun to watch the reaction of people's
faces when such a small profile train arrives in the platform.

There is no connection between the Central Line and District Line in the
Mile End area. Not sure about what rules would apply for a Central Line
train to run in non ATO mode on a normally signalled line. There is a
link between the two lines at Ealing Broadway and via Ruislip depot onto
the Met.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound trains
arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated about 1,000
passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in the morning
peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of passengers to
seats). Whilst this isn't as high as some LU and other NR routes, I
think it indicates a strong underlying demand given the relatively poor
and uneven frequency.

Interestingly, the RUS itself indicates quite a low utilisation of the
available capacity - in the range of 20-40%, similar to Gospel Oak to
South Tottenham and the now-closed Stratford to Custom House.

The RUS's recommendation was to extend all NLL/WLL trains to 4 cars in
the short term (by 2009), increase all-day frequency to 4tph on the WLL
in the medium term (2009-12) by creating an additional Southern service
calling all stations from Shepherd's Bush to East Croydon (with
additional "PIXC-busters" to relieve peak overcrowding if trains can't
be lengthened further).

TfL instead wanted an all-day frequency of 5tph on the WLL in the medium
term, by running 4tph Stratford to Clapham Junction to replace the
current 2tph Willesden J to Clapham J, and retaining 1tph Southern
Watford J - Brighton/East Croydon.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"sweek" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is a relatively old map, and it's also quite a strange map since
it's somewhere between the "London Connections" and the "Tube map",
showing the Croydon tramlink, Thameslink and Crossrail but not other
railways.
There's a few things that are definitely not going to happen.
Shoreditch is closed and will stay closed, the West London tram is very
unlikely, and the East London Line will be named Overground.
The Northern Line will hopefully be split by then, the Bakerloo
extended back to Watford Junction and the old Watford station would be
closed. Those are all much more likely projects than some of the ones
on this map.

Also there is no reconfiguration of SSL i.e no Met to Barking and no T-Cup.
No Wood Lane or renaming of Sherperds bush on the H&C
Shows Eurostar at Waterloo which is not going to be true

Andrew