Brimstone wrote:
Such things didn't happen until some twenty or so years ago, at least not on
the scale that it does now. What's the reason do you suppose?

Not sure on what happened in the 60s, 70s and 80s but these people are
now bringing up the children that are causing all the problems. I do
feel sorry for kids who suffer such hardship during childhood, and
think it's fair to say that a lot of these problems are down to their
parents/grandparents being such a bad influence. The 'children' from
broken homes are then having children (in fact the 21 year old killed
in Barking had a recently born baby).

Still, at least the parents didn't defend his actions. I do feel sorry
for them, but not him.

I fear for the future. Many 'career women' aren't interested in having
children, so who is going to be producing the kids to pay our pensions
(and then theirs?). Oh dear god...

Jonathan

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Jonathan
Morris gently breathed:
Brimstone wrote:

Such things didn't happen until some twenty or so years ago, at least not on
the scale that it does now. What's the reason do you suppose?

TBH, that's not true. There have always been tearaway kids, all through
history. Probably a lot more of them got killed in the past - times
were you could be hanged for stealing a sheep - but there were always
wild and out of control kids.

Not sure on what happened in the 60s, 70s and 80s but these people are
now bringing up the children that are causing all the problems. I do
feel sorry for kids who suffer such hardship during childhood, and
think it's fair to say that a lot of these problems are down to their
parents/grandparents being such a bad influence. The 'children' from
broken homes are then having children (in fact the 21 year old killed
in Barking had a recently born baby).

There did used to be more of a social stigma to having (or being)
"illegitimate kids" - but that just meant most of 'em ended up in
institutions (where doubtless all manner of undocumented abuse went on),
or if the mums managed to have them undetected, they were just quietly
done away with.

Still, at least the parents didn't defend his actions. I do feel sorry
for them, but not him.

Agreed.

I fear for the future. Many 'career women' aren't interested in having
children, so who is going to be producing the kids to pay our pensions
(and then theirs?). Oh dear god...

This is a good thing - there are way too many people on the planet
already, we need fewer, not more.

To be able to sustain what we in the developed world regard as a
civilised lifestyle will take a massive cut in the human population. We
can do it sensibly, by planning, or we can wait for the resources to run
out and let the ensuing wars and famine cull humanity for us. My
money's on the latter being what happens though.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = http://www.wytches.net = The UK's Pagan ISP!
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com

In article ,
Pyromancer wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Jonathan
Morris gently breathed:
Brimstone wrote:

Such things didn't happen until some twenty or so years ago, at least not on
the scale that it does now. What's the reason do you suppose?

TBH, that's not true. There have always been tearaway kids, all through
history. Probably a lot more of them got killed in the past - times
were you could be hanged for stealing a sheep - but there were always
wild and out of control kids.

Quite. First death-by-interaction with a railway engine was, IIRC, in
1812, when a one of a group of children running in front of and across in
front of a train on the Middleton Railway was struck and killed. Vandalism
of trains by children is recorded repeatedly from the wooden-railway era.
It was certainly a problem on the Stockton and Darlington. Of course,
these were far more lawless (and much less law-respecting) societies than
ours..

For real large-scale lawlessness and the railways - the tramways of
Monmouthshire and Glamorgan played a key role in the Merthyr Rising.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
"Usenet should require licenses;
licenses that can be revoked." (Abigail, in the Monastery)

I fear for the future. Many 'career women' aren't interested in having
children, so who is going to be producing the kids to pay our pensions

I caught a comedy film the other day called "Idiocracy" with hit on
exactly the same theory.

It suggested that responsible, cautious and intelligent couples delayed
parenthood until financial security and stability had been achieved.
Conception was less successful, which resulted in a higher proportion of
intelligent families going childless and the eventual loss of parents
with responsible values.

Meanwhile, the lazy, stupid, unemployed trailer-trash produced lots of
rowdy and uncontrollable children early in life which did likewise,
resulting in the gradual down-turn of the overall IQ of the world.

It has some very funny sketches in it at the expense of the terminally
dense and pulls a lot from the traits of the yoof of today. Particularly
the language, where they couldn't understand English anymore. I can't
help but think there's a serious message and a nightmare vision that
might come true one day...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

I have to say though there is no sign the two killed in this incident
were of this breed - more it appears to have been an addiction to this
kind of activity.

Cheers, Dave

Pyromancer wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Jonathan
Morris gently breathed:

Brimstone wrote:


Such things didn't happen until some twenty or so years ago, at least not on
the scale that it does now. What's the reason do you suppose?


TBH, that's not true. There have always been tearaway kids, all through
history. Probably a lot more of them got killed in the past - times
were you could be hanged for stealing a sheep - but there were always
wild and out of control kids.


Not sure on what happened in the 60s, 70s and 80s but these people are
now bringing up the children that are causing all the problems. I do
feel sorry for kids who suffer such hardship during childhood, and
think it's fair to say that a lot of these problems are down to their
parents/grandparents being such a bad influence. The 'children' from
broken homes are then having children (in fact the 21 year old killed
in Barking had a recently born baby).


There did used to be more of a social stigma to having (or being)
"illegitimate kids" - but that just meant most of 'em ended up in
institutions (where doubtless all manner of undocumented abuse went on),
or if the mums managed to have them undetected, they were just quietly
done away with.


Still, at least the parents didn't defend his actions. I do feel sorry
for them, but not him.


Agreed.


I fear for the future. Many 'career women' aren't interested in having
children, so who is going to be producing the kids to pay our pensions
(and then theirs?). Oh dear god...


This is a good thing - there are way too many people on the planet
already, we need fewer, not more.

To be able to sustain what we in the developed world regard as a
civilised lifestyle will take a massive cut in the human population. We
can do it sensibly, by planning, or we can wait for the resources to run
out and let the ensuing wars and famine cull humanity for us. My
money's on the latter being what happens though.

That reminds of a speech made some years ago by the Green Party's local
spokesman, where, with a straight face, he said: "Green policies will
work in the UK, but only if we reduce the population by 30 million people."

He failed to see the humour in my response, when I pointed out that the
Green Party didn't have 30 million members ready to do the "good thing"
for the sake of the rest of us.

Ricardo
--
The Which Blair Project:
Taking the "Great" out of Britain and dropping us further into the Brown
stuff!

In article , Pyromancer
writes
There did used to be more of a social stigma to having (or being)
"illegitimate kids" - but that just meant most of 'em ended up in
institutions (where doubtless all manner of undocumented abuse went on),
or if the mums managed to have them undetected, they were just quietly
done away with.

Or they got adopted - with or without paperwork - by a childless
relative or friend.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , DaveP
writes
I caught a comedy film the other day called "Idiocracy" with hit on
exactly the same theory.
[...]
resulting in the gradual down-turn of the overall IQ of the world.

A theme that first (I believe) appears in the short story "The Marching
Morons" by C.M.Kornblogh (I'm *sure* I've spelled that wrong). Worth
reading if you can find it.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 16 Jan 2007 23:46:53 GMT, DaveP wrote:

I caught a comedy film the other day called "Idiocracy" with hit on
exactly the same theory.

It suggested that responsible, cautious and intelligent couples delayed
parenthood until financial security and stability had been achieved.
Conception was less successful, which resulted in a higher proportion of
intelligent families going childless and the eventual loss of parents
with responsible values.

Meanwhile, the lazy, stupid, unemployed trailer-trash produced lots of
rowdy and uncontrollable children early in life which did likewise,
resulting in the gradual down-turn of the overall IQ of the world.

It has some very funny sketches in it at the expense of the terminally
dense and pulls a lot from the traits of the yoof of today. Particularly
the language, where they couldn't understand English anymore. I can't
help but think there's a serious message and a nightmare vision that
might come true one day...


One day?

Sadly, most of this is true in the UK in 2007.

Clive Feather writes:
A theme that first (I believe) appears in the short story "The Marching
Morons" by C.M.Kornblogh (I'm *sure* I've spelled that wrong).

Kornbluth.

Worth reading if you can find it.

Yep.
--
Mark Brader | "If communication becomes impossible, it is expected that
Toronto | both parties will... notify the other that communication
| has become impossible..." --memo to university staff

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as DaveP
gently breathed:
I fear for the future. Many 'career women' aren't interested in having
children, so who is going to be producing the kids to pay our pensions

I caught a comedy film the other day called "Idiocracy" with hit on
exactly the same theory.

As a child I read a sci-fi story written in the 1950s which had this
theme, "The Marching Morons". It's not a new idea.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. http://www.sheepish.net

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = http://www.wytches.net = The UK's Pagan ISP!
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk http://www.revival.stormshadow.com