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London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London. |
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#21
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Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
The worst I've found is on sub-urban commuter routes where very few of the regular stock have first class but occasionally one gets put on. Naturally hardly anyone's got a first class ticket and the result is either have everyone squeeze into standard class like sardines or some have to go in first. Surely first class can't be valid in those circumstances? It MUST be declassified as nobody would ever mark a service as having first class if passengers couldn't always use it. This is why services that are operated by 313s on FCC GN won't have first class, even though a lot of the time the Letchworth/Royston rush hour trains will use a 317 (and also some services returning at the end of rush hour from WGC in the morning to KGX and then back to the depot). The timetable clearly shows them as being standard class only. Jonathan |
#22
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Roland Perry wrote:
Although MML at weekends have been known to announce the availability of their "Weekend First" upgrades, on the train, and collect the money while doing the ticket check. One did that when we went to Chelmsford for V-festival. ISTR it wasn't much either. If the train is a service that always has a ticket check (like most Inter-city services), I'd expect there to be a good chance I could upgrade as fare evasion is, in theory, impossible. However, on a suburban commuter route where the ticket checking is usually at the station, it's obvious it would be abused. Therefore the only logical solution is to issue a penalty fare, or introduce some clever, and expensive, 'ticket by SMS' option that allows you to send a text to upgrade or buy a ticket and get a reference number that can be shown and confirmed - proving you did so when you boarded and not one second before the RPI turned up! Seems like a lot of effort though! Jonathan |
#23
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Matt Wheeler wrote:
When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to leave the station. I've been on a couple of services where I could genuinely say that it was full (all seats). This is more likely in the rush hour, where people will ask passengers to move bags and coats off otherwise empty seats. At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train? It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be willing to stand. As for half the train being empty, that's also true at times. Jonathan |
#24
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In message , at 09:50:13 on
Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Matt Wheeler remarked: When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to leave the station An issue along similar lines: what about vestibules. I've often noticed people getting on a MML Meridian, and finding themselves in the vestibule between two First Class coaches (perhaps the Meridians aren't marked very well). They seem reluctant to walk through the train and therefore stand in the vestibule. Is this allowed? (I have an idea that standing in a FC *corridor* isn't allowed, but I'm no so sure about vestibules). The grippers don't seem to challenge them (although as far as I can see they rarely challenge anyone northbound between Leicester and Nottingham). -- Roland Perry |
#25
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Jonathan Morris wrote:
Matt Wheeler wrote: When you say "full" do you mean that all standard class areas have fully occupied seats and no standing room, or the more usual, no desirable seats available (occupied by people/bags) and the rear carriage is half empty as it means a long walk at the destination to leave the station. I've been on a couple of services where I could genuinely say that it was full (all seats). This is more likely in the rush hour, where people will ask passengers to move bags and coats off otherwise empty seats. You're a lucky man if you've only been on a couple of trains where there are no available seats - it's not an unusual situation in the rush hour! At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train? It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be willing to stand. People can be pathetic wilting violets in such situations - as you say just ask! |
#26
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In message .com, at
05:10:01 on Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Jonathan Morris remarked: At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train? It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be willing to stand. I often seem to get a reservation in seat 1 of Meridians. This is the corner seat at the end of the coach. It's also the seat that seems to be a prime target for occasional travellers to slump into (first they see when they get on board), complete with half a dozen assorted bags. The problem when asking them to move is answering the inevitable question "so where are my bags supposed to go"? There never seems to be a Meridian Train Designer handy when you need to refer people to them! -- Roland Perry |
#27
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In message , Roland Perry
writes In message .com, at 05:10:01 on Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Jonathan Morris remarked: At most other times, it's a case of people trying to keep empty seats next to them - and people are too scared to ask them to move whatever it is they've put there. Should this count as a full to capacity train? It's certainly the majority. I have no hesitation to ask someone to move something, but you will often get the look that says 'That's MY seat - how dare you take it'. You just have to get on with it, or be willing to stand. I often seem to get a reservation in seat 1 of Meridians. This is the corner seat at the end of the coach. It's also the seat that seems to be a prime target for occasional travellers to slump into (first they see when they get on board), complete with half a dozen assorted bags. The problem when asking them to move is answering the inevitable question "so where are my bags supposed to go"? There never seems to be a Meridian Train Designer handy when you need to refer people to them! Seats should not be occupied by bags, I have frequently found my reserved seat to be occupied by a bag belonging to The woman in the next seat, They get asked to remove IT. -- martyn dawe |
#28
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In message , at 13:49:30 on Sun,
21 Jan 2007, martyn dawe remarked: The problem when asking them to move is answering the inevitable question "so where are my bags supposed to go"? There never seems to be a Meridian Train Designer handy when you need to refer people to them! Seats should not be occupied by bags, I know that, and you know that (and so do most of the people posting here). I have frequently found my reserved seat to be occupied by a bag belonging to The woman in the next seat, They get asked to remove IT. And what if "it" is three or four carrier bags, a handbag and a rucksack? The people who are struggling with loads like this are not often in the best of moods, and seem to want to know where else they are expected to put all their luggage. I am not particularly interested in spending the next two hours wedged next to someone whose nose has been put out of joint by decisions made long ago by a Meridian Designer, but blames me. -- Roland Perry |
#29
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Mizter T wrote:
You're a lucky man if you've only been on a couple of trains where there are no available seats - it's not an unusual situation in the rush hour! Depends on the route, obviously. Some morning trains will be packed, but others start from just one station back and are pretty empty. By the time it gets to Finsbury Park, it's pretty packed but not ridiculously so. People can be pathetic wilting violets in such situations - as you say just ask! I can sort of understand a family or group considering a train to be full when you can't get seats together, but few trains (bar the rush hour) are literally packed as people say (such as those who moan to the media about how our trains are always overcrowded). It's just that you may have to split up to get seated. In some rare instances, people will volunteer to move so people can sit together. I think even I might be a little too shy to ask people to swap seats! Jonathan |
#30
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A long time ago (1984 ish) I was on a First Class Only service from
Crewe I seem to rembember. Do such things still exist. The RPI let me of on the grounds that it was the only train to get me to where I was going but he said I should technically have not got on it at all! mysteryflyer |
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