In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes
martyn dawe wrote:

The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something
out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?

You mean like Croydon?


Yes |I know , but most Brits have never seem a modern tram system, there
the Brit Nimbly effect , don't people think the planners have thought it
out ?
--
martyn dawe

Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted
out because they supported the tram.

I think it MIGHT have had something to do with other issues, tbh.

:-)Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and
they did.

Council meets manifesto commitment shocka !

3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost

The Croydon Tramlink cost a fortune and the Council Tax in
Croydon/Merton/Bromley did not increase by 30% - why do you think it
will now ?

Face facts, the only reason that the 3 Councils oppose it, is because
Labour support it, and Labour Councils proposed it.

wrote:

Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted
out because they supported the tram.

I think it MIGHT have had something to do with other issues, tbh.

Perhaps - but the ousted Labour administration on Ealing would disagree on
the tram's importance to their defeat. The swing to the Conservatives there
took everyone by surprise.

However, there is a limit to the capacity you can get from such a bus
service without more infrastructure (at very high frequencies, buses
will need to be able to overtake each other easily). Longer vehicles
will be needed (longer than the current bendy buses) - and that brings
us right back to trams or tram-like technology (e.g. optically-guided
multi-articulated buses).

As a daily user of the 207 or 607 route, I am obviously supportive of
the tram. However I have been surprised, when talking to people, about
the strength of local opposition. Moreover, the more I use the route,
the more I feel that some quite cheap measures (a few more bus lanes,
some prioritisation at lights, better management of the driving
schedules) could be put in place within 12 months to really speed up
the bus routes on the Uxbridge Road. I would suggest that the project
should be put on hold for 18 months while some other measures are
tried.

I have read again and again about the impossibility of putting more
buses on this route and I simply do not believe it to be true.

wrote:

Face facts, the only reason that the 3 Councils oppose it, is because
Labour support it, and Labour Councils proposed it.

So why does the Labour group on Ealing now oppose it? And admit to being out
of touch on the issue, costing them the last election?

And don't you think the impact on the roads isn't at the forefront of
people's minds in boroughs with a lot of car ownership?

On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
martyn dawe wrote:
The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something
out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon?

Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the
North Circular.

In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town
planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out
seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia,
Netherlands and Germany.

In message . com,
writes

The Croydon Tramlink cost a fortune and the Council Tax in
Croydon/Merton/Bromley did not increase by 30% - why do you think it
will now ?

Perhaps because it will be very hard indeed to attract private capital
for the WLT, given the substantial and continuing losses made by the
Croydon system.

But in any case I don't think that comparisons with Tramlink (which I
very much like) are valid, since much of the permanent way for the
Croydon system was a relatively simple matter of conversion. The WLT is
altogether different, being largely on-street throughout.

Face facts, the only reason that the 3 Councils oppose it, is because
Labour support it, and Labour Councils proposed it.

I think cost-benefit ratios are actually the main worry, even if
polarised in political terms.
--
Paul Terry

alexterrell wrote:

On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
martyn dawe wrote:
The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something
out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon?

Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the
North Circular.

In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town
planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out
seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia,
Netherlands and Germany.

Which town planners are you levelling this at? It's the (borough)
politicians who are opposed to the tram; the (borough) planners are
probably the same ones as when the tram was originally proposed. I also
know that quite a number of borough planners have seen what has been
done with bikes in the Netherlands and Germany!

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London