On 2 Feb 2007 03:37:53 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

....
I wonder, by comparison, what fare-dodging rates on the London bendy
buses are.

Plenty on London bendies enter by middle and rear doors without
bothering to touch in or touch anything. I've had a weekly on an
Oyster, boarded one 18, found the validators stuck on red and not been
able to push to the front to get working ones.

However one other NL issue that sticks: why don't train kiosks sell
Strippenkaarts? Integrated public transport, unintegrated tickets. And
don't start me on the chip-bloody-knip.
--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

In message , Colum Mylod
writes

I wonder, by comparison, what fare-dodging rates on the London bendy
buses are.

Plenty on London bendies enter by middle and rear doors without
bothering to touch in or touch anything.

I have a pass - I'm not required to, so have many others. Bendies are
designed to be boarded through all doors.

I've had a weekly on an
Oyster, boarded one 18, found the validators stuck on red and not been
able to push to the front to get working ones.

Weekly passes are not required to validate so why bother?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Feb 2, 11:49 am, "sweek" wrote:
On the other hand, I get the feeling about 80% of the people who don't
have an OV-Student card do faredodge.

I certainly do not have that impression, at least in Den Haag. I'd
guess the figure is around 20% on trams, and somewhere around zero on
buses as you're checked and stamped on boarding.

Neil

On Feb 2, 3:03 pm, Colum Mylod wrote:

However one other NL issue that sticks: why don't train kiosks sell
Strippenkaarts? Integrated public transport, unintegrated tickets.

This is a bugbear - but at every station that's big enough to have a
ticket office there's usually a Kiosk (drinks, snacks etc), all of
which *do* sell Strippenkaarten.

And
don't start me on the chip-bloody-knip.

It's a good idea that could really do with being rolled out throughout
Europe. Until it is, however, I find it quite annoying that anywhere
is allowed to *only* accept it.

Neil

I'm sorry, I forgot to add "in Rotterdam" to that post. In Rotterdam
no one really seems to bother with tickets on the metro.

Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the
magnetic strip?

I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the process
of, or preparing to, set up such a system.

"Richard J." wrote in message
k...
alexterrell wrote:
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
[...]

If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits,
so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get
out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules
being less stringent in France.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:


"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
alexterrell wrote:
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
[...]

If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits,
so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get
out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules
being less stringent in France.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the
magnetic strip?

I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the process
of, or preparing to, set up such a system.

RATP have been experimenting with Smartcards for almost as long as LT.
They do now have Smartcards working and installed following an initial
bus and Metro trial. IIRC they were converting people who held annual
tickets to the new format and then working their way on to other season
ticket (Carte Orange) holders. From a quick glance it would seem they
have the system installed in zones 1 and 2 (basically the Metro and core
bus network) and are working out from there.

They call it "Le Passe Navigo" - see www.ratp.fr and then click on "le
passe navigo" under the Le Club RATP listing.

Magnetic tickets remain in use for Metro and RER / SNCF (Transilien)
services.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 1 Feb 2007 05:40:40 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" wrote:

Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
will probably lead to larger dwell times.

Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for
a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be
implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be
rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies
with different fare levels.

I was genuinely surprised how well exit validation on bus worked in
Singapore when I was there a few weeks ago. It didn't seem to cause any
undue delay over a range of vehicle types that I observed. I used the
system myself and got used to it quite quickly. I have to say I have my
doubts as to how well it work in our less ordered, less obedient society
and with our preponderance towards to one door buses - everything in
Singapore was dual door.

I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
transport.

Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an
interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse
than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/
mode.

Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
etc.) lately.

And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style
disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear
to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last
week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I
fail to see how it can ever run.

This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport.
It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch
with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a
little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to
achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have
arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch?

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:

Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the
magnetic strip?

I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements
from time to time. In London.

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:


"Richard J." wrote in message
k...
alexterrell wrote:
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
[...]

If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on
the exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure
that people can get out of a station. But you may well be right
about health & safety rules being less stringent in France.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny
strips with the magnetic strip?

I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the
process of, or preparing to, set up such a system.

RATP have been experimenting with Smartcards for almost as long as
LT. They do now have Smartcards working and installed following an
initial bus and Metro trial. IIRC they were converting people who
held annual tickets to the new format and then working their way
on to other season ticket (Carte Orange) holders. From a quick
glance it would seem they have the system installed in zones 1 and
2 (basically the Metro and core bus network) and are working out
from there.

They call it "Le Passe Navigo" - see www.ratp.fr and then click on
"le passe navigo" under the Le Club RATP listing.

Navigo is now in operation for all season tickets including the weekly
Carte Orange, similar to a 7-day Travelcard. The RATP are encouraging
all Carte Orange holders to convert to Navigo by, for example, having
teams of people in major interchange stations offering to convert paper
tickets to Navigo in 1 minute. (I'm not absolutely sure whether the
Navigo is issued on the spot or posted to the holder's address. The
early ones took 3 weeks to arrive through the post.) The advantage to
RATP is that Navigo can be renewed on a ticket machine, just like
loading a new Travelcard season on to Oyster.

The cards themselves have an integral ID photo, like a UK driving
licence, instead of a separate photo card like the paper Carte Orange.
Ticket gates all have a large circular purple disc on them where the
Navigo is read, ditto the buses. Many stations have one gate dedicated
to Navigo, i.e. without a paper ticket slot. You don't actually need to
"touch in" as it will read the card if you hold it up to about 1 cm
above the disc.

There's no sign of any PAYG facility being implemented on Navigo yet, so
they are not much use to short-stay tourists.

Magnetic tickets remain in use for Metro and RER / SNCF (Transilien)
services.

The other development in Paris is that in Métro stations they have
started to phase out the selling of tickets other than from the
machines. Only a few stations so far, but I think it will spread across
the network. There is still an RATP person behind the window, but he's
there to offer advice and information, not to sell tickets. Tickets can
still be bought over the counter at the local 'tabac' though.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)