This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport.
It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch
with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a
little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to
achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have
arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch?

The systems are quite okay, really. I don't think you could say
anything is really getting worse. But the improvements that had been
planned have all been delivered late, went overbudget and have had
introductory problems.
This is true the five big projects; Randstadrail (still not ready,
detrainments have put the whole thing to a halt), HSL-Zuid (still not
ready, overbudget), Betuweroute (still not ready, overbudget) and the
North-South line in Amsterdam (overbudget, due date has already been
set back) and the OV-Chipkaart (as described above, going to be
introduced late as well). I'm sure we'll see the actual improvements
in the end, but these things aren't making railways any more popular
with the general public, and I can't see it helping with upcoming
projects. The Hanzelijn, although only in its planning stages, has
secured its money and it looks like that will be going well. So far.

On a brighter note, the completely new timetable that was introduced
in December has actually been a succes, and not the big disaster that
many had thought it would be.

(I don't live there anymore now, but I try and keep up to date.

On Feb 3, 1:55 am, "sweek" wrote:

On a brighter note, the completely new timetable that was introduced
in December has actually been a succes, and not the big disaster that
many had thought it would be.

It's causing a lot of problems at Schiphol, because they've tried an
experiment whereby instead of most trains being timetabled to a
specific platform, they're timetabled (almost Czech-style) to any
platform on a specific island. The trouble with that is that the flap-
board PIS can't cope with this properly. To handle it large LCD
screens have been installed in addition, but these show only things
like "1030 Stoptrein Den Haag HS". An arrow is added when it's
determined which side it's going to be. However, because these boards
don't show intermediate stops, and because most trains run across
Amsterdam, it is causing a *lot* of confusion with tourists at
Schiphol. Given that I don't think I've ever seen both sides of the
same island occupied at Schiphol (interchange between Stoptreinen and
Sneltreinen is timetabled to happen at Hoofdorp instead), I really
don't understand why it was done.

As to the Dutch reaction to the failures like Randstadrail (which, as
I said, I don't know how it'll ever run without major mods to the
stock) I think it's a slightly cynical resignation, but I do get the
impression that patience may be running out, and that the car may be
on the up. For such a public-transport-oriented country that's quite
sad.

Neil

On Feb 2, 10:09 pm, "sweek" wrote:
I'm sorry, I forgot to add "in Rotterdam" to that post. In Rotterdam
no one really seems to bother with tickets on the metro.

Fair enough - my experience is that in Den Haag people normally do pay
their way.

Neil

As do I.

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:

Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with
the
magnetic strip?

I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements
from time to time. In London.

They were all over the place in Paris when I was last there.


"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:

Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with
the
magnetic strip?

I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements
from time to time. In London.

"Richard J." wrote in message
k...

You don't actually need to "touch in" as it will read the card if you hold
it up to about 1 cm above the disc.

Same here in London.

The other development in Paris is that in Métro stations they have started
to phase out the selling of tickets other than from the machines. Only a
few stations so far, but I think it will spread across the network. There
is still an RATP person behind the window, but he's there to offer advice
and information, not to sell tickets. Tickets can still be bought over
the counter at the local 'tabac' though.

Holland's national rail is really stressing that passengers should purchase
tickets from machines, I have heard.

It is still possible to buy a ticket from somebody behind a window, but it
incurs a surcharge of 50 cents, I also heard.

On Feb 3, 10:19 am, wrote:

It is still possible to buy a ticket from somebody behind a window, but it
incurs a surcharge of 50 cents, I also heard.

Correct, but (and this is the really stupid bit) the machines don't
accept notes, nor credit cards (except, for some reason I fail to
understand, at Schiphol), which for most tourists makes this a right
pain and effectively a tourist tax.

Neil

I thought that I saw the machines with facilities to take notes or cards.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 3, 10:19 am, wrote:

Correct, but (and this is the really stupid bit) the machines don't
accept notes, nor credit cards (except, for some reason I fail to
understand, at Schiphol), which for most tourists makes this a right
pain and effectively a tourist tax.

Neil

It's coins or debit cards only, which is absolutely stupid.

On Feb 3, 5:54 pm, "sweek" wrote:
It's coins or debit cards only, which is absolutely stupid.

Not only that, but *Maestro* debit cards only, which rules out about
50% of UK cards as about half the UK banks issue Visa debit cards,
which are generally processed as if they were a credit card for
international stuff.

I've also heard that (because Switch used to be a UK-only standard)
the success rate for UK cards is not exactly 100% even if the Maestro
logo is displayed.

Compared with this, Uncle Ken's Tube tourist tax isn't half as bad, as
at least anyone can put in a bit of effort and get an Oyster card to
avoid it. (The trick I use to avoid it is to buy all the tickets I
think I'm going to need in one go from the machines at Schiphol,
because they do take credit cards and will issue undated tickets
including to/from other stations).

Neil