On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:09:43 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

Hello again,

during my last London trip I witnessed a group of police and LU staff
"guarding" the exits of the station. They caught one man just coming
out of the station when I was there, he seemed rather upset (I didn't
see how he got through the fare gates). Also inside the station I saw a
policeman taking down the ID of some passenger. My interpretation was
that they were on hunt for fare dodgers.

The part I don't understand is why they do this in the first place. I
thought the LU system is rather "fraud safe". You can't get in or out
of the system without some form of valid ticket (except by climbing
over the gates or taking a detour to a DLR station), so hunting down
fare dodgers should be pointless. What am I missing?

The event was in Archway BTW.

The LU system is not free of fraud. There are a number of things that
can happen [1] so a human presence to trap people is used. A further
tactic has been to use police (with sniffer dogs) as well because it can
be the case that people dodging fares may be in possession of weapons or
drugs or materials to graffiti the system.

On top of all of that we have the threat of attack to the system.

We have had a reasonable number of these checks at Walthamstow Central
and the police have been kept busy interviewing and detaining people. We
have also had the mobile metal detector / walk through scanner used too.

[1] I'm not publishing details of potential frauds on usenet.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Feb 10, 1:41 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:09:43 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:



Hello again,

during my last London trip I witnessed a group of police and LU staff
"guarding" the exits of the station. They caught one man just coming
out of the station when I was there, he seemed rather upset (I didn't
see how he got through the fare gates). Also inside the station I saw a
policeman taking down the ID of some passenger. My interpretation was
that they were on hunt for fare dodgers.

The part I don't understand is why they do this in the first place. I
thought the LU system is rather "fraud safe". You can't get in or out
of the system without some form of valid ticket (except by climbing
over the gates or taking a detour to a DLR station), so hunting down
fare dodgers should be pointless. What am I missing?

The event was in Archway BTW.

The LU system is not free of fraud. There are a number of things that
can happen [1] so a human presence to trap people is used. A further
tactic has been to use police (with sniffer dogs) as well because it can
be the case that people dodging fares may be in possession of weapons or
drugs or materials to graffiti the system.

On top of all of that we have the threat of attack to the system.

We have had a reasonable number of these checks at Walthamstow Central
and the police have been kept busy interviewing and detaining people. We
have also had the mobile metal detector / walk through scanner used too.

[1] I'm not publishing details of potential frauds on usenet.

Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

Guy in the "ticket office" (which doesnt sell ticket) wasn't bothered
though, too busy reading the paper.

The guy in the ticket office

Paul Weaver wrote:

Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

Not to mention making you an unwitting accomplice if she does it right
on your heels as you said.
--
Michael Hoffman

On 10 Feb 2007 06:13:19 -0800, "Paul Weaver"
wrote:

Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

If, and it's a big if, you detect you are to be subjected to "a lambada"
through a gate then it's quite fun to stop before the end of the aisle
and make loud shouty noises about what on earth is going on. ;-)

This sort of fraud can be dealt with if there are plain clothes
inspectors and police waiting in the ticket hall area. Local staff will
know if there is a prevalence for such behaviour at particular times and
suitable observation and checks can be put in place. CCTV coverage at
gatelines also assists in identifying the problem. I accept, though,
that a proportion of such fraud is opportunistic which is harder to deal
with.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Weaver wrote:

they had followed through the barrier on my heels

I always check before inserting my ticket that there is no-one behind me...
but this might be impossible in rush hour.

In message , John Rowland
writes
Paul Weaver wrote:

they had followed through the barrier on my heels

I always check before inserting my ticket that there is no-one behind me...
but this might be impossible in rush hour.


If they get it wrong you can find yourself up against a locked barrier
in close proximity to a very dodgy individual. Not the best way to treat
loyal customers and there must be a better way of doing it.

How about a photo card, a weekly ticket and gates with human being on
them ? :-)


--
Edward Cowling London UK

"John Rowland" typed


Paul Weaver wrote:

they had followed through the barrier on my heels

I always check before inserting my ticket that there is no-one behind me...
but this might be impossible in rush hour.


I suddenly get very slow and wobbly when I'm tailgated; shame about
trading on toes...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Feb 10, 2:13 pm, "Paul Weaver" wrote:
Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

Perhaps for your next trick you could take your public spirited stand
to the GLA offices and do the same to Ken LIvingstone and his cronies
who have raised the price of travelcards to absurd levels. I have
every sympathy with fare dodgers these days since the travelling
public in london is being completely and utterly shafted by sky high
fares and a 3rd world service run by a bunch of thick witted
management and bone idle, indifferent staff.

B2003

On Feb 11, 6:27 pm, "Boltar" wrote:
On Feb 10, 2:13 pm, "Paul Weaver" wrote:

Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

Perhaps for your next trick you could take your public spirited stand
to the GLA offices and do the same to Ken LIvingstone and his cronies
who have raised the price of travelcards to absurd levels. I have
every sympathy with fare dodgers these days since the travelling
public in london is being completely and utterly shafted by sky high
fares and a 3rd world service run by a bunch of thick witted
management and bone idle, indifferent staff.

Vote with your pounds then, and don't use it! And remember to vote
someone else in to Mayoral office next time, perhaps stand yourself if
noone else fits the bill. You could campaign on a platform of "free
tube travel for scum, but make everyone getting off at canary wharf
pay £50."

There are alternatives, they might not be as convienient, quick, or
nice, however you can
1) Walk
2) Bike
3) Bus
4) Car
5) Not go

Everyone chooses the best value of time/money/convienience for them.
In most cases you don't need a travel card (especially a peak time
one)

Ken's done wonders in moving scum to the buses leaving the tubes, on
the most part (save for the drug dealers and fare dodgers) free for
normal hard working people.

On 11 Feb, 18:27, "Boltar" wrote:
On Feb 10, 2:13 pm, "Paul Weaver" wrote:

Some I can't see how you can catch, even with checks on trains. I
accosted a middle-class fare dodger at my local station the other day,
they had followed through the barrier on my heels so I loudly informed
them that fare dodging was illegal and punishable by a £1000 fine. She
insisted that she had a valid ticket but it wasn't valid until after
09:30 (it was 0900), and it was no buisness of mine, to which I
responded if it's valid, it would open the barrier, and if you're fare
dodging you're increasing my fare and making my station seem less used
than it is, leading to possible closure.

Perhaps for your next trick you could take your public spirited stand
to the GLA offices and do the same to Ken LIvingstone and his cronies
who have raised the price of travelcards to absurd levels. I have
every sympathy with fare dodgers these days since the travelling
public in london is being completely and utterly shafted by sky high
fares and a 3rd world service run by a bunch of thick witted
management and bone idle, indifferent staff.

B2003

It is a shame that Boltar didn't end his comments at Mayor
Livingstone, he then decided to slag the staff that mostly agree that
fares are exorbibant. We are on our feet for between 5 and 8 hours a
day and have to take not only verbal but also now becoming more
frequent physical abuse. If he thinks our job is easy, why not spend a
shift at a central London station and experience the delightful
travelling public. Also if something goes wrong, be it fire, explosion
or any number of possibilities, he will rely on the training of the
staff to get him out. I hope he takes that on board the next time he
chooses to slag off the staff.