Wonder if anyone here can shed some light on this.
My colleague was checking both TFL's travel planner and National
Rail's website for transfer times for a Saturday AM between the above-
mentioned stations. TFL were pretty optimistic, quoting just over 20
mins, using Jubilee to Baker Street, then Bakerloo.
National Rail seemed to have very little faith in London Underground's
services and quoted 1 hour. No detail could be found for which route
their webiste might have determined.
We decided after some discussion, that a midpoint between the 2 times
was probably the most realistic. I'm just surprised there was such a
disparity.
Any comments/suggestions?
Martin J.

On 17 Feb 2007 05:17:23 -0800, "martin j"
wrote:

Wonder if anyone here can shed some light on this.
My colleague was checking both TFL's travel planner and National
Rail's website for transfer times for a Saturday AM between the above-
mentioned stations. TFL were pretty optimistic, quoting just over 20
mins, using Jubilee to Baker Street, then Bakerloo.
National Rail seemed to have very little faith in London Underground's
services and quoted 1 hour. No detail could be found for which route
their webiste might have determined.
We decided after some discussion, that a midpoint between the 2 times
was probably the most realistic. I'm just surprised there was such a
disparity.
Any comments/suggestions?

A basic "rule" of calculation is count the gaps between stations and
multiply by 2 minutes. Add 5 minutes for an interchange although Baker
St is a cross platform interchange for Jubilee to Bakerloo so can be
done in about a minute if you alight beside a connecting corridor
between the platforms. This gives about a time of 33 minutes or so. Note
that travelling early or late means the interval between trains can be
as much as 10 minutes for some lines in the central area to some
destinations and much longer out in the suburbs. There is also no
allowance in the above for any delays and unfortunately they do happen
but it has hard to insert a time allowance for those unless you are
aware a line has problems before you set off and then you can allow more
time or choose a different route. I'd probably give myself between
35-40 mins to make your trip unless it was at 7am Sat or so and then I'd
add 10 minutes on.

Note that the above does NOT allow for time to enter the tube station,
reach the platforms and do the reverse at the other end. Nor does it
allow for time from getting off one NR train and finding your next one.
I usually allow at least 5 minutes for entry and exit at tube stations
unless I know the internal layout and can position myself for the
fastest route possible. For your trip I would allow at least 8 minutes
as London Bridge and Paddington are big, complex stations and if you are
unfamiliar with them or have luggage or have people "in tow" you need to
allow more time to follow the signs.

NR will always hedge the time as they cannot know how encumbered you are
or how physically fit. A reasonably fit person with perhaps one light
bag can do a cross London transfer in less than an hour but others may
not be able to do so. They therefore include a safety margin.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

martin j wrote:
Wonder if anyone here can shed some light on this.
My colleague was checking both TFL's travel planner and National
Rail's website for transfer times for a Saturday AM between the above-
mentioned stations. TFL were pretty optimistic, quoting just over 20
mins, using Jubilee to Baker Street, then Bakerloo.

In addition to Paul Corfield's points, I should point out that if you
consider the Journey Planner time as your time from point A-B, you are
inherently assuming that you will arrive at the platform just at the
instant the train arrives. As you know this is unrealistic, so you
should add at least the time between services at that hour, which is the
maximum time you will have to wait.

I don't trust the National Rail journey planner estimates for Tube
journeys. It doesn't know what the TfL journey planner does.
--
Michael Hoffman

On 17 Feb 2007 05:17:23 -0800, martin j wrote:

Wonder if anyone here can shed some light on this.
My colleague was checking both TFL's travel planner and National
Rail's website for transfer times for a Saturday AM between the above-
mentioned stations. TFL were pretty optimistic, quoting just over 20
mins, using Jubilee to Baker Street, then Bakerloo.
National Rail seemed to have very little faith in London Underground's
services and quoted 1 hour. No detail could be found for which route
their webiste might have determined.
We decided after some discussion, that a midpoint between the 2 times
was probably the most realistic. I'm just surprised there was such a
disparity.
Any comments/suggestions?

The TfL planner gives typical "average" journey times, rather than the
maximum amount of time you should allow for the journey. In fact it
tends to be a bit optimistic - it assumes Tube trains arrive and
depart at exactly the times in the (internal) timetable, and the start
time for the journey is the time you need to be on the correct
platform at London Bridge to catch the scheduled train. It also
doesn't always allow sensible transfer times at interchange stations
(maybe they've improved this recently; I haven't used it in a while).

If I were making the journey myself, even knowing exactly where to go
and without luggage or other people in tow, I wouldn't expect to reach
Baker Street (let alone Paddington) within 20 minutes of stepping off
the train at London Bridge. The minimum I'd want between scheduled
arrival and departure times would be around 40 minutes. If I was going
somewhere like Penzance (i.e. can't just get another train half an
hour later) then it would have to be even higher.

The National Rail planner, I assume, uses the fixed transfer times
shown on p.43 of the NR Timetable[1]. For London Bridge to Paddington,
this is 62 minutes.

If you have an advance-purchase ticket that's only valid on one
particular train from Paddington, you may have to have allowed the
full 62 minutes for the transfer in order to have the ticket accepted
on a later train, in the event of a delay (either on the train to
London Bridge or on the Underground). If you have an open ticket then
this needn't concern you, although you should probably be allowing
around that amount of time anyway.

[1]
See p.43 of:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%...nformation.pdf

martin j wrote:
Wonder if anyone here can shed some light on this.
My colleague was checking both TFL's travel planner and National
Rail's website for transfer times for a Saturday AM between the above-
mentioned stations. TFL were pretty optimistic, quoting just over 20
mins, using Jubilee to Baker Street, then Bakerloo.
National Rail seemed to have very little faith in London Underground's
services and quoted 1 hour. No detail could be found for which route
their webiste might have determined.
We decided after some discussion, that a midpoint between the 2 times
was probably the most realistic. I'm just surprised there was such a
disparity.
Any comments/suggestions?
Martin J.

The other comments have provided quite a bit, I'd just like to add that
it depends how important your connection is at Paddington - do you have
a ticket for a specific train that you absolutely must catch, or are you
taking a frequent service on a flexible ticket?

In the former case, I would pretty much allow double whatever the
Journey Planner says. However, in the latter, I'd be quite happy to cut
it fine, especially if I am not weighed down with bags and if I already
have a ticket for the train. In that case I'd say 30 mins for the
journey you describe would be OK if everything is running smoothly.

The key point for me is to check the travel information - a little while
before you need to make the journey, so then you can go straight for an
alternative. If you have a WAP/internet phone, the TfL site at
wap.tfl.gov.uk is invaluable (choose Live Travel News for the Tube from
the front page). You can also text TUBE JUBILEE to 60835 to get
real-time info for the Jubilee line (or swap JUBILEE for any other line).

If there are problems, alternatives would be to catch another overground
train from London Bridge onwards into Charing Cross and then go for the
Bakerloo direct, or take the Northern to Moorgate and then Circle or
Hammersmith & City to Paddington.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London