On 6 Mar 2007 05:00:54 -0800, "Andrea" wrote:

I have travelled several times on the Silverlink Gospel Oak to Barking
service in the past fortnight. What has shocked me is the apparent
large-scale fare evasion on this route.

There is always a guard present on the train but he/she never
materialises to check tickets. I have heard dozens of people say that
they never buy tickets as there is no deterrent factor (many stations
are open and unstaffed, e.g. Leytonstone High Road). Access from the
overground to the underground at Blackhorse Road os open, so anybody
can access the underground without a ticket.

It really annoys me when Silverlink seems to be doing nothing about
this. Talking to several fare-paying regulars on this line,
ticketless travel is rife. Northbound trains in the morning also tend
to be cancelled, leaving many customers unable to board at
imtermediate stations, such as Leytonstone, due to the 2 carriage
train being full.

I imagine Silverlink have taken the view that as they are losing the
service they will simply keep it ticking over until handover. I imagine
they have no incentive to really pursue revenue protection given that
most of the stations are unmanned (they only staff Gospel Oak directly,
Bhr Rd is LU and Barking is C2C). I'd also guess that all of their
costs are covered either by franchise payments or TfL "top up" payments
for the extra peak, evening and Sunday services that run. As the line is
unlikely ever to make a profit they have probably adopted a "no minimum"
philosophy.

Years ago the guards did wander through the trains checking tickets but
stations are quite close together which makes it something of a slog to
keep returning to the back cab to control the doors.

Not heard about trains being cancelled on a regular basis though. It
used to be awful with the old slam door trains but they were on their
absolute last legs so it was perhaps understandable if nonetheless very
irritating if you were delayed in consequence.

I hope tFL will take a hard line on the revenut side of things when
they take over this line later this year.

As I understand TfL are taking the revenue risk on the North London
Railway concession they may well take a different line on revenue
matters. However I would argue they have a big task to get these
stations upgraded to the point where ticket selling could actually take
place at most of them and where there'd be decent staff accommodation.
They may simply put in portacabins as a first step which may well help
but the layout of the stations is not what I'd call particularly
convenient even for that approach. I very much doubt you'd see ticket
gates going in but I might be proved wrong on that score.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens to this line. The
plans are fine in theory but Network Rail have to spend money to sort
out the decaying bridges and viaducts before you can get any real
performance out of the line. It's currently very slow due to
infrastructure restrictions on the western part of the line. I just
don't see this line being the priority given the pressures to raise
capacity on the North London Line and to build the ELLX.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mar 6, 5:51 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
I just don't see this line being the priority given the
pressures to raise capacity on the North London Line and to
build the ELLX.

Perhaps the best way to raise capacity on the NLL _is_ to do the
infrastructure works on the GOBLIN, as you can then employ economies
of scale and add OHLE while doing so. Hey presto - an electrified
diversionary route that might be usable for some of the freight trains
that use the Gospel Oak - Stratford segment of the NLL.

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 6 Mar 2007 05:00:54 -0800, "Andrea" wrote:

I have travelled several times on the Silverlink Gospel Oak to Barking
service in the past fortnight. What has shocked me is the apparent
large-scale fare evasion on this route.

There is always a guard present on the train but he/she never
materialises to check tickets. I have heard dozens of people say that
they never buy tickets as there is no deterrent factor (many stations
are open and unstaffed, e.g. Leytonstone High Road). Access from the
overground to the underground at Blackhorse Road os open, so anybody
can access the underground without a ticket.

It really annoys me when Silverlink seems to be doing nothing about
this. Talking to several fare-paying regulars on this line,
ticketless travel is rife. Northbound trains in the morning also tend
to be cancelled, leaving many customers unable to board at
imtermediate stations, such as Leytonstone, due to the 2 carriage
train being full.

I imagine Silverlink have taken the view that as they are losing the
service they will simply keep it ticking over until handover. I imagine
they have no incentive to really pursue revenue protection given that
most of the stations are unmanned (they only staff Gospel Oak directly,
Bhr Rd is LU and Barking is C2C). I'd also guess that all of their
costs are covered either by franchise payments or TfL "top up" payments
for the extra peak, evening and Sunday services that run. As the line is
unlikely ever to make a profit they have probably adopted a "no minimum"
philosophy.

Years ago the guards did wander through the trains checking tickets but
stations are quite close together which makes it something of a slog to
keep returning to the back cab to control the doors.

Not heard about trains being cancelled on a regular basis though. It
used to be awful with the old slam door trains but they were on their
absolute last legs so it was perhaps understandable if nonetheless very
irritating if you were delayed in consequence.

I hope tFL will take a hard line on the revenut side of things when
they take over this line later this year.

As I understand TfL are taking the revenue risk on the North London
Railway concession they may well take a different line on revenue
matters. However I would argue they have a big task to get these
stations upgraded to the point where ticket selling could actually take
place at most of them and where there'd be decent staff accommodation.
They may simply put in portacabins as a first step which may well help
but the layout of the stations is not what I'd call particularly
convenient even for that approach. I very much doubt you'd see ticket
gates going in but I might be proved wrong on that score.

It will be interesting to see what actually happens to this line. The
plans are fine in theory but Network Rail have to spend money to sort
out the decaying bridges and viaducts before you can get any real
performance out of the line. It's currently very slow due to
infrastructure restrictions on the western part of the line. I just
don't see this line being the priority given the pressures to raise
capacity on the North London Line and to build the ELLX.

AIUI, infrastructure work by Network Rail is already pencilled in for
summer 2011, following work on the western NLL and then the eastern NLL.

As for station works, there are proposals for an extensive package of
work which will be firmed up once the concession has been let. It's very
likely that several stations will have quite extensive works involving
big alterations to the ticket areas. Ticket gates are very likely to go
in at those stations. I believe that *every* station will have ticket
machines installed (this being most relevant to the GOBLIN); ticket
*offices* are very unlikely as the philosophy will be to follow LU in
freeing up staff to work more visibly throughout the station, rather
than sitting behind ticket windows with poor visibility.

There is still some question over how the Mayor's plan for full staffing
will work - it depends on the final concession agreement. One suggestion
is to have staff roaming between stations, which of course will have the
side effect of putting them on board trains too.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:14:25 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

It will be interesting to see what actually happens to this line. The
plans are fine in theory but Network Rail have to spend money to sort
out the decaying bridges and viaducts before you can get any real
performance out of the line. It's currently very slow due to
infrastructure restrictions on the western part of the line. I just
don't see this line being the priority given the pressures to raise
capacity on the North London Line and to build the ELLX.

AIUI, infrastructure work by Network Rail is already pencilled in for
summer 2011, following work on the western NLL and then the eastern NLL.

Any definition as to what this work will be? A shame we have to wait 4
years but better late than never if it gets the line back into some sort
of decent shape.

As for station works, there are proposals for an extensive package of
work which will be firmed up once the concession has been let. It's very
likely that several stations will have quite extensive works involving
big alterations to the ticket areas. Ticket gates are very likely to go
in at those stations. I believe that *every* station will have ticket
machines installed (this being most relevant to the GOBLIN); ticket
*offices* are very unlikely as the philosophy will be to follow LU in
freeing up staff to work more visibly throughout the station, rather
than sitting behind ticket windows with poor visibility.

I am genuinely surprised that ticket gates will go in. I can see why
ticketing improvements are needed - after all something is better than
nothing. I still think it will be a challenge to get all of this work
properly planned and co-ordinated. Assuming the existing safety rules
apply to these future gate installations I detect a slight flaw in the
operational revenue concept when put alongside the staffing concept you
describe below. If the gates have to be powered down for periods of
time then people will simply learn how to work round the temporary
restriction.

There is still some question over how the Mayor's plan for full staffing
will work - it depends on the final concession agreement. One suggestion
is to have staff roaming between stations, which of course will have the
side effect of putting them on board trains too.

I suppose that makes sense in terms of a common philosophy but given the
relative isolation of these stations and low frequency I would have
thought a permanent presence would be preferable to provide security,
revenue protection and prevent vandalism. Still the main thing is that
at long last they are going to see some substantive improvement which is
really what is needed.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!